5 ms·

The subtle point in that sentence might be "provider OR an owner", as opposed to "provider AND an owner".

rolph 3y ago
https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=4AyjKgz9tKg https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=4AyjKgz9tKg [video]
rtkwe 3y ago
The law there is defining two categories manufacturers need to provide the parts to, changing it to AND would mean owners would have to be certified repair people to be covered.
- filoleg 3y ago
  Not trying to take a dig at your comment, but for others struggling to parse (as much as I was) what it was trying to say, here is the trick that helped me - place a comma right before “changing” or treat that word as the start of a new sentence.
  - olliej 3y ago
    There was an entire lawsuit about the presence or absence of an Oxford comma in some law, possibly even in Oregon? [edit: boo it was Maine! Happily "Oxford comma lawsuit" is sufficient search term: https://www.npr.org/2017/03/23/521274657/the-10-million-lawsuit-that-hinges-on-an-oxford-comma https://www.npr.org/2017/03/23/521274657/the-10-million-laws...]
    - j33zusjuice 3y ago
      They were awarded $5M in the end. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/us/oxford-comma-maine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/us/oxford-comma-maine.htm...
  - rtkwe 3y ago
    Very fair I don't do the best job going and clarifying my comments some times. They come out a bit stream of consciousness. I did see your comment in time to make the change at least.
    - filoleg 3y ago
      All good, no worries. I have the same tendency for writing singular sentences that should’ve honestly been paragraphs instead. I’ve got some feedback about it at work, so now I genuinely try to be a bit better about it. It is a bit easier for me to be mindful of it on HN, but, as evident by my comment history, I am still far from being consistently good about it. It is still often a “stream of consciousness written down as I would speak it outloud”, but now I at least started doublechecking the punctuation (or lack of it) for any potential confusion it could create before hitting send.
basil-rash 3y ago
There’s tons of prior art in Law saying that And and Or are the same thing and can be interpreted interchangeably based on context. Much to the chagrin of the computer scientists who think it’s some sort of robust formal specification for civil society.
- AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
  WANTED: DEAD AND ALIVE
  - cutemonster 3y ago
    If you look at "wanted" to be prefixed to everything in the list, it'd expand to: "wanted: dead, and wanted: alive". While this: "Wanted: dead or alive" could be interpreted as: "We haven't decided yet what we actually want, if it's dead, or alive, but it's one of those". Then it can be good to give them (the police) a call and ask if they have decided yet, before you go looking for the wanted person
  - tcmart14 3y ago
    Obviously they want Schrodinger's criminal. You must get them before their wave function collapses.
- throw10920 3y ago
  > based on context Does this specific context allow for interchanging?
  - AaronM 3y ago
    The bill clearly defines an independent service provider and an owner as different entities.
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  > Much to the chagrin of the computer scientists who think it’s some sort of robust formal specification for civil society. Law is actually code, just written in a language that is full of UB and you need to have if run on the system to know exactly what it does, the system being the hierarchy of jurisdictions.

https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=4AyjKgz9tKg https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=4AyjKgz9tKg [video]

The law there is defining two categories manufacturers need to provide the parts to, changing it to AND would mean owners would have to be certified repair people to be covered.

filoleg 3y ago
Not trying to take a dig at your comment, but for others struggling to parse (as much as I was) what it was trying to say, here is the trick that helped me - place a comma right before “changing” or treat that word as the start of a new sentence.
- olliej 3y ago
  There was an entire lawsuit about the presence or absence of an Oxford comma in some law, possibly even in Oregon? [edit: boo it was Maine! Happily "Oxford comma lawsuit" is sufficient search term: https://www.npr.org/2017/03/23/521274657/the-10-million-lawsuit-that-hinges-on-an-oxford-comma https://www.npr.org/2017/03/23/521274657/the-10-million-laws...]
  - j33zusjuice 3y ago
    They were awarded $5M in the end. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/us/oxford-comma-maine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/09/us/oxford-comma-maine.htm...
- rtkwe 3y ago
  Very fair I don't do the best job going and clarifying my comments some times. They come out a bit stream of consciousness. I did see your comment in time to make the change at least.
  - filoleg 3y ago
    All good, no worries. I have the same tendency for writing singular sentences that should’ve honestly been paragraphs instead. I’ve got some feedback about it at work, so now I genuinely try to be a bit better about it. It is a bit easier for me to be mindful of it on HN, but, as evident by my comment history, I am still far from being consistently good about it. It is still often a “stream of consciousness written down as I would speak it outloud”, but now I at least started doublechecking the punctuation (or lack of it) for any potential confusion it could create before hitting send.

basil-rash 3y ago

There’s tons of prior art in Law saying that And and Or are the same thing and can be interpreted interchangeably based on context. Much to the chagrin of the computer scientists who think it’s some sort of robust formal specification for civil society.

AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
WANTED: DEAD AND ALIVE
- cutemonster 3y ago
  If you look at "wanted" to be prefixed to everything in the list, it'd expand to: "wanted: dead, and wanted: alive". While this: "Wanted: dead or alive" could be interpreted as: "We haven't decided yet what we actually want, if it's dead, or alive, but it's one of those". Then it can be good to give them (the police) a call and ask if they have decided yet, before you go looking for the wanted person
- tcmart14 3y ago
  Obviously they want Schrodinger's criminal. You must get them before their wave function collapses.
throw10920 3y ago
> based on context Does this specific context allow for interchanging?
- AaronM 3y ago
  The bill clearly defines an independent service provider and an owner as different entities.
littlestymaar 3y ago
> Much to the chagrin of the computer scientists who think it’s some sort of robust formal specification for civil society. Law is actually code, just written in a language that is full of UB and you need to have if run on the system to know exactly what it does, the system being the hierarchy of jurisdictions.