4 ms·

The subject has always fascinated me, largely to understand this character type when I encounter it. I've worked for a couple of sociopaths, it was extremely co

The subject has always fascinated me, largely to understand this character type when I encounter it. I've worked for a couple of sociopaths, it was extremely confusing and difficult. I find it interesting that the author understands that the way she behaves can have negative impacts on people around her. In my experience this is unusual, sociopaths I've met either don't get this, or if they do, don't care, and in some cases use it as a 'special power' to advance themselves, especially in business. If you're not hampered by feelings of guilt or unfairness a lot of social barriers fall away.

JohnBooty 3y ago
In my experience this is unusual, sociopaths I've met either don't get this Wow, that doesn't jive with my personal experiences or what I've ever read about sociopathy. It sounds more like you're describing folks on the autism spectrum. Sociopaths (which I realize is a somewhat deprecated term) tend to be skilled manipulators because they do understand how they effect others, but don't particularly feel much guilt about it. They also behaved pretty scrupulously most of the time, because even if you have little empathy, behaving like a creepy scumbag is generally not going to be beneficial in the long run. If you are a sociopath, you might not feel "guilty" about being a shitty neighbor or even murdering somebody, but on a purely practical level, your life will still be much more pleasant if you're friendly with the neighbors and the cops aren't busting down your door to arrest you for murder. Or at least that's how it seemed to me. I'm just curious observer, not somebody really qualified to have an opinion...
- dirtybirdnj 3y ago
  > Wow, that doesn't jive with my personal experiences or what I've ever read about sociopathy. It sounds more like you're describing folks on the autism spectrum. The amount of undue hate that people on the spectrum get for being sociopaths or narcissist is awful. You are correct that they may misunderstand or "not get" social situations. You are incorrect in that they don't care / can't feel the emotion of a situation. Often they are overwhelmed by this and it's what makes "dealing" (passing as NT) difficult. The amount of times I have had people socially manipulate situations against me is difficult to count. Any time you speak up about this you are the "crazy" one. These have mostly been situations where sociopaths are abusing me for the entertainment / social benefit reason. They DO NOT CARE about the pain / suffering they cause. This has been a source of extreme stress, pain and suffering in my life. YMMV obviously but the amount of time I have to spend explaining this to people is disheartening. It's like nobody wants to believe that people can be so awful... and this belief can hand wave away any bad behavior being described. > because even if you have little empathy, behaving like a creepy scumbag is generally not going to be beneficial in the long run. I think you significantly underestimate the benefit to risk ratio. There are a lot more terrible, manipulative, sadistic people out there than "kind but misunderstood" people. The averages are not in our favor.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    The amount of undue hate that people on the spectrum get for being sociopaths or narcissist is awful. You are correct that they may misunderstand or "not get" social situations. You are incorrect in that they don't care / can't feel the emotion of a situation. Often they are overwhelmed by this and it's what makes "dealing" (passing as NT) difficult. I absolutely agree. When I said the parent's post sounded more like they were describing autism, I strictly meant the part about struggling to understand social dynamics. I might have been able express that better, not quite sure. But more importantly yes, absolutely agree with what you wrote there.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - dirtybirdnj 3y ago
      > When I said the parent's post sounded more like they were describing autism I have a feeling that the venn diagram between autism and the ASPD stuff is more than we realize. Same spectrum, just extreme dysfunction at polar ends. > I strictly meant the part about struggling to understand social dynamics. One thing that's been amazing for me (re: autism spectrum) is understanding the difference between "not seeing" the social dynamics and simply not feeling the same way the rest of society does... which is interpreted as "doesn't respect authority". To me it's stunning how groups completely lack any critical thinking. It's scary like falling asleep behind the wheel when driving, not a thing to be proud of and wear like a badge of honor. This introspection makes it easier to (attempt to) comprehend how ASPD people don't feel empathy. I don't feel any respect for people in positions of power who do not treat their subordinates (or customers) with respect. If I see it, I respect them... if not... I don't. I can only guess how ASPD folks feel like "well if I can take advantage of this person I will. If I don't someone else will, so I deserve it because it will happen." For me I think the issue is ASPD people do not see themselves as a problem, when they clearly are harmful to society. Somehow bringing them in line with the expectations of everybody else is a grave attack on their personal character. They are such effective manipulators that they can get away with it. They are like drunk drivers with a pass to DUI and cause as much wreckage as they please, because the cops like them and they have fun whenever they pull this person over. The victim the drunk driver injured has to "deal with it" on their own both financially and emotionally. Any complaining from the person who suffered the consequences is just "playing the victim" when the drunk who caused the crash faces no consequences. Why would this person ever change?

JohnBooty 3y ago

In my experience this is unusual, sociopaths I've met either don't get this Wow, that doesn't jive with my personal experiences or what I've ever read about sociopathy. It sounds more like you're describing folks on the autism spectrum. Sociopaths (which I realize is a somewhat deprecated term) tend to be skilled manipulators because they do understand how they effect others, but don't particularly feel much guilt about it. They also behaved pretty scrupulously most of the time, because even if you have little empathy, behaving like a creepy scumbag is generally not going to be beneficial in the long run. If you are a sociopath, you might not feel "guilty" about being a shitty neighbor or even murdering somebody, but on a purely practical level, your life will still be much more pleasant if you're friendly with the neighbors and the cops aren't busting down your door to arrest you for murder. Or at least that's how it seemed to me. I'm just curious observer, not somebody really qualified to have an opinion...

dirtybirdnj 3y ago
> Wow, that doesn't jive with my personal experiences or what I've ever read about sociopathy. It sounds more like you're describing folks on the autism spectrum. The amount of undue hate that people on the spectrum get for being sociopaths or narcissist is awful. You are correct that they may misunderstand or "not get" social situations. You are incorrect in that they don't care / can't feel the emotion of a situation. Often they are overwhelmed by this and it's what makes "dealing" (passing as NT) difficult. The amount of times I have had people socially manipulate situations against me is difficult to count. Any time you speak up about this you are the "crazy" one. These have mostly been situations where sociopaths are abusing me for the entertainment / social benefit reason. They DO NOT CARE about the pain / suffering they cause. This has been a source of extreme stress, pain and suffering in my life. YMMV obviously but the amount of time I have to spend explaining this to people is disheartening. It's like nobody wants to believe that people can be so awful... and this belief can hand wave away any bad behavior being described. > because even if you have little empathy, behaving like a creepy scumbag is generally not going to be beneficial in the long run. I think you significantly underestimate the benefit to risk ratio. There are a lot more terrible, manipulative, sadistic people out there than "kind but misunderstood" people. The averages are not in our favor.
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  The amount of undue hate that people on the spectrum get for being sociopaths or narcissist is awful. You are correct that they may misunderstand or "not get" social situations. You are incorrect in that they don't care / can't feel the emotion of a situation. Often they are overwhelmed by this and it's what makes "dealing" (passing as NT) difficult. I absolutely agree. When I said the parent's post sounded more like they were describing autism, I strictly meant the part about struggling to understand social dynamics. I might have been able express that better, not quite sure. But more importantly yes, absolutely agree with what you wrote there.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - dirtybirdnj 3y ago
    > When I said the parent's post sounded more like they were describing autism I have a feeling that the venn diagram between autism and the ASPD stuff is more than we realize. Same spectrum, just extreme dysfunction at polar ends. > I strictly meant the part about struggling to understand social dynamics. One thing that's been amazing for me (re: autism spectrum) is understanding the difference between "not seeing" the social dynamics and simply not feeling the same way the rest of society does... which is interpreted as "doesn't respect authority". To me it's stunning how groups completely lack any critical thinking. It's scary like falling asleep behind the wheel when driving, not a thing to be proud of and wear like a badge of honor. This introspection makes it easier to (attempt to) comprehend how ASPD people don't feel empathy. I don't feel any respect for people in positions of power who do not treat their subordinates (or customers) with respect. If I see it, I respect them... if not... I don't. I can only guess how ASPD folks feel like "well if I can take advantage of this person I will. If I don't someone else will, so I deserve it because it will happen." For me I think the issue is ASPD people do not see themselves as a problem, when they clearly are harmful to society. Somehow bringing them in line with the expectations of everybody else is a grave attack on their personal character. They are such effective manipulators that they can get away with it. They are like drunk drivers with a pass to DUI and cause as much wreckage as they please, because the cops like them and they have fun whenever they pull this person over. The victim the drunk driver injured has to "deal with it" on their own both financially and emotionally. Any complaining from the person who suffered the consequences is just "playing the victim" when the drunk who caused the crash faces no consequences. Why would this person ever change?