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> entirely predictable had the HTTP2 team bothered to talk to anyone who did networking I think it's good that things have evolved rather than being stuck behi

> entirely predictable had the HTTP2 team bothered to talk to anyone who did networking I think it's good that things have evolved rather than being stuck behind naysaying. Sure, there were pitfalls/hurdles that could have been avoided, but it's not clear that maintaining perfection every step of the way would have got us to QUIC.

blueflow 3y ago
This is not some pitfall. This is a major problem in tech and IMHO totally unacceptable. The same things are re-invented all over again and again without actually making much of an improvement. The result of this is that we get constant upgrades and "improvements", but overall reliability, UI usability, latency and performance in general are actually worsening every year.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- richardwhiuk 3y ago
  > overall reliability, UI usability, latency and performance is this just a rose-tinted gut feel, or do you have actual data?
  - blueflow 3y ago
    Reliability: Gut feeling. I'm a support engineer. The modern DevOps/Cloud stack is just garbage. People only believe they save money with it because they don't calculate in what they will pay me. UI usability: This is a discoverable, good UI: https://jbss.de/bilder/scr118d.gif https://jbss.de/bilder/scr118d.gif . You can instantly tell what is a button, where you can enter text and what is inert. You can even read out all the hotkeys from the screenshot. Now, without hovering over it with your mouse, check the header of this post (the grey line) and tell me which strings will take you to a place (= are a link), which do an action (= are a button) or are inert. They all look the same and you need to investigate it first with the cursor. And even then you can't tell the buttons ("flag", "vouch") apart from the links ("parent", "context"). Latency and performance: I played RTS games for 15 years. Despite getting old and rustly, i easily hit 120 APM during office work. I can tell if an application can handle it. Things like the Windows Start menu were fast enough for me until like Vista, but now they aren't - i need to wait a bit or i click before it is popped up.
  - KaiserPro 3y ago
    > have actual data The CPU/GPU required to render an interface at 60hz has gone up inline with moore's law.
    - cruffle_duffle 3y ago
      How about resolution? Color depth? Complexity of what is displayed? Last I checked my old commodore PET wasn’t rendering ray-traced 4K UHD graphics at 60hz… 60hz is pretty easy if all you are doing is a simple character buffer.
      - pi-e-sigma 3y ago
        How about latency of the key press? Why Apple II has practically zero latency and your modern monster desktop is visibly lagging in a fucking text editor? Despite Apple II being literally millions times slower than a modern rig.
      - KaiserPro 3y ago
        > old commodore PET wasn’t rendering ray-traced 4K UHD graphics at 60hz… Nor is my phone, yet newer apps are now struggling to render basic GUIs at 60hz.
        richardwhiuk 3y ago
        Your phone has a higher resolution, a lower size, and a lower thermal footprint, and more battery life....

blueflow 3y ago

This is not some pitfall. This is a major problem in tech and IMHO totally unacceptable. The same things are re-invented all over again and again without actually making much of an improvement. The result of this is that we get constant upgrades and "improvements", but overall reliability, UI usability, latency and performance in general are actually worsening every year.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
richardwhiuk 3y ago
> overall reliability, UI usability, latency and performance is this just a rose-tinted gut feel, or do you have actual data?
- blueflow 3y ago
  Reliability: Gut feeling. I'm a support engineer. The modern DevOps/Cloud stack is just garbage. People only believe they save money with it because they don't calculate in what they will pay me. UI usability: This is a discoverable, good UI: https://jbss.de/bilder/scr118d.gif https://jbss.de/bilder/scr118d.gif . You can instantly tell what is a button, where you can enter text and what is inert. You can even read out all the hotkeys from the screenshot. Now, without hovering over it with your mouse, check the header of this post (the grey line) and tell me which strings will take you to a place (= are a link), which do an action (= are a button) or are inert. They all look the same and you need to investigate it first with the cursor. And even then you can't tell the buttons ("flag", "vouch") apart from the links ("parent", "context"). Latency and performance: I played RTS games for 15 years. Despite getting old and rustly, i easily hit 120 APM during office work. I can tell if an application can handle it. Things like the Windows Start menu were fast enough for me until like Vista, but now they aren't - i need to wait a bit or i click before it is popped up.
- KaiserPro 3y ago
  > have actual data The CPU/GPU required to render an interface at 60hz has gone up inline with moore's law.
  - cruffle_duffle 3y ago
    How about resolution? Color depth? Complexity of what is displayed? Last I checked my old commodore PET wasn’t rendering ray-traced 4K UHD graphics at 60hz… 60hz is pretty easy if all you are doing is a simple character buffer.
    - pi-e-sigma 3y ago
      How about latency of the key press? Why Apple II has practically zero latency and your modern monster desktop is visibly lagging in a fucking text editor? Despite Apple II being literally millions times slower than a modern rig.
    - KaiserPro 3y ago
      > old commodore PET wasn’t rendering ray-traced 4K UHD graphics at 60hz… Nor is my phone, yet newer apps are now struggling to render basic GUIs at 60hz.
      - richardwhiuk 3y ago
        Your phone has a higher resolution, a lower size, and a lower thermal footprint, and more battery life....