4 ms·

I disagree. It's an ad hominem point. Comments should focus on ideas. Race based commentary like this is a discredit to one's own argument and character.

ethanbond 3y ago
Race: Famously irrelevant to the whole tribal lands/indigenous rights topic
- coldtea 3y ago
  It's irrelevant to "does this follow indigenous tradition or violate it" point, which is the point discussed in the subthread - not tribal lands/indigenous rights.
  - badcppdev 3y ago
    Why would Indigenous people have to follow tradition? I believe it is racist (or sexist) to say that a group of people cannot do something because that is not something they've done in the past. For Mr Gordon Price to imply that a group should not do something because it has not been done before is him trying to deny their agency.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      >Why would Indigenous people have to follow tradition? They don't "have to". But they can break with it in a nice way or in a bad way. Same way a culture can change their tradition in a respectful way or to replace it with McDonalds and Starbucks for example. This is not confined to "indigenous people". The same critique can and does apply to any group.
    - trimethylpurine 3y ago
      No one said they do. The article provides no background or context from which one could conclude an implication that "a group should not do something because it has not been done before." He didn't say that. The article attempts very poorly to imply that meaning. You've created a dummy to punch and you're punching it. Unfortunately this is all too common. It's called a straw man fallacy.
badcppdev 3y ago
You could take the word fuck out of the original comment and it would still have the clear reasoning that Gordon Price as a white person should not be telling an indigenous group that what they want to do is not the "Indigenous way". White person should not define "Indigenous way". How else can we misinterpret this argument?
- coldtea 3y ago
  >White person should not define "Indigenous way" Any person, white, black, asian, whatever, can however assess whether this development is in line with the indigenous tradition or something that might distort or endanger it. Or do you think the same discussion doensn't happen within the indigenous community as well?
  - BehindBlueEyes 3y ago
    Most outsiders lack the understanding of what indigenous way of life entails beyond stereotypes, and are therefor poor judges. Besides, indigenous culture has been distorted and endangered by oppresssion, the least we can do as outsiders is let them reclaim and rebuilt their traditions how they want it.
  - badcppdev 3y ago
    "indigenous tradition or something that might distort or endanger" Are certain groups not allowed to change? Why use the word distort or endanger? We aren't talking about the discussions inside the community. We are talking about people outside the community applying judgements to their decisions and actions.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      >Are certain groups not allowed to change? Did I say that? >Why use the word distort or endanger? Because obviously some change can be distorting and/or endagering some things? The fact that an individual or group is allowed to change doesn't mean each particular change is always for the better. >We are talking about people outside the community applying judgements to their decisions and actions. Yes, so? Do you think groups should only get judgements to their decisions and actions from within themselves?

ethanbond 3y ago

Race: Famously irrelevant to the whole tribal lands/indigenous rights topic

coldtea 3y ago
It's irrelevant to "does this follow indigenous tradition or violate it" point, which is the point discussed in the subthread - not tribal lands/indigenous rights.
- badcppdev 3y ago
  Why would Indigenous people have to follow tradition? I believe it is racist (or sexist) to say that a group of people cannot do something because that is not something they've done in the past. For Mr Gordon Price to imply that a group should not do something because it has not been done before is him trying to deny their agency.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    >Why would Indigenous people have to follow tradition? They don't "have to". But they can break with it in a nice way or in a bad way. Same way a culture can change their tradition in a respectful way or to replace it with McDonalds and Starbucks for example. This is not confined to "indigenous people". The same critique can and does apply to any group.
  - trimethylpurine 3y ago
    No one said they do. The article provides no background or context from which one could conclude an implication that "a group should not do something because it has not been done before." He didn't say that. The article attempts very poorly to imply that meaning. You've created a dummy to punch and you're punching it. Unfortunately this is all too common. It's called a straw man fallacy.

badcppdev 3y ago

You could take the word fuck out of the original comment and it would still have the clear reasoning that Gordon Price as a white person should not be telling an indigenous group that what they want to do is not the "Indigenous way". White person should not define "Indigenous way". How else can we misinterpret this argument?

coldtea 3y ago
>White person should not define "Indigenous way" Any person, white, black, asian, whatever, can however assess whether this development is in line with the indigenous tradition or something that might distort or endanger it. Or do you think the same discussion doensn't happen within the indigenous community as well?
- BehindBlueEyes 3y ago
  Most outsiders lack the understanding of what indigenous way of life entails beyond stereotypes, and are therefor poor judges. Besides, indigenous culture has been distorted and endangered by oppresssion, the least we can do as outsiders is let them reclaim and rebuilt their traditions how they want it.
- badcppdev 3y ago
  "indigenous tradition or something that might distort or endanger" Are certain groups not allowed to change? Why use the word distort or endanger? We aren't talking about the discussions inside the community. We are talking about people outside the community applying judgements to their decisions and actions.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    >Are certain groups not allowed to change? Did I say that? >Why use the word distort or endanger? Because obviously some change can be distorting and/or endagering some things? The fact that an individual or group is allowed to change doesn't mean each particular change is always for the better. >We are talking about people outside the community applying judgements to their decisions and actions. Yes, so? Do you think groups should only get judgements to their decisions and actions from within themselves?