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Ah the exuberance of youth, I do not envy this person's impending descent into pure cynicism. That being said, these problems are not new. These specific thing

Ah the exuberance of youth, I do not envy this person's impending descent into pure cynicism. That being said, these problems are not new. These specific things don't really matter. What matters is culture. Admiral Rickover, responsible for the nuclear navy, wrote a speech called "Doing a Job". It is worth reading in it's entirety and it speaks almost directly and presciently to what is happening at Boeing right now: https://govleaders.org/rickover.htm https://govleaders.org/rickover.htm > Human experience shows that people, not organizations or management systems, get things done. For this reason, subordinates must be given authority and responsibility early in their careers. > When doing a job—any job—one must feel that he owns it, and act as though he will remain in the job forever. ... If he feels he is only a temporary custodian, or that the job is just a stepping stone to a higher position, his actions will not take into account the long-term interests of the organization. > In accepting responsibility for a job, a person must get directly involved. Every manager has a personal responsibility not only to find problems but to correct them. This responsibility comes before all other obligations, before personal ambition or comfort. > The man in charge must concern himself with details. If he does not consider them important, neither will his subordinates. Yet “the devil is in the details.” It is hard and monotonous to pay attention to seemingly minor matters. In my work, I probably spend about ninety-nine percent of my time on what others may call petty details. Most managers would rather focus on lofty policy matters. But when the details are ignored, the project fails. No infusion of policy or lofty ideals can then correct the situation. > It is a human inclination to hope things will work out, despite evidence or doubt to the contrary. A successful manager must resist this temptation.

ramblerman 3y ago
You've given the typical MBA answer - that link included - and dismissed OP as being "youtfully naive". And perhaps he is, but more naive is you notion of we just need to change our beliefs with an article about what "real" leadership looks like. Incentives drive everything! And our financial short term focus squeezing every last drop out of every quarter does not produce long term good quality.
- hayst4ck 3y ago
  Rickover is about as far from an MBA as you can get, truly. Here is another quote from his speech which agrees with your central point. > One must create the ability in his staff to generate clear, forceful arguments for opposing viewpoints as well as for their own. Open discussions and disagreements must be encouraged, so that all sides of an issue will be fully explored. Further, important issues should be presented in writing. Nothing so sharpens the thought process as writing down one’s arguments. Weaknesses overlooked in oral discussion become painfully obvious on the written page. You are violently agreeing with me and Rickover's speech. You should read it. You will like it. Here is another: > A major flaw in our system of government, and even in industry, is the latitude allowed to do less than is necessary. Too often officials are willing to accept and adapt to situations they know to be wrong. The tendency is to downplay problems instead of actively trying to correct them. Recognizing this, many subordinates give up, contain their views within themselves, and wait for others to take action. When this happens, the manager is deprived of the experience and ideas of subordinates who generally are more knowledgeable than he in their particular areas.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- jvans 3y ago
  This is the opposite of an MBA answer. MBAs are famous for hand waving over important details and this answer hammers home the point of them
- hayst4ck 3y ago
  Here is another speech Admiral Rickover gave to congress: https://www.worldfuturefund.org/Articles/rickover.html https://www.worldfuturefund.org/Articles/rickover.html > A preoccupation with the so-called bottom line of profit and loss statements, coupled with a lust for expansion, is creating an environment in which fewer businessmen honor traditional values; where responsibility is increasingly disassociated from the the exercise of power; where skill in financial manipulation is valued more than actual knowledge and experience in the business; where attention and effort is directed mostly to short-term considerations, regardless of longer-range consequences.
jvans 3y ago
I love this whole speech. I'm curious how people put some of these efforts into practice, particularly holding people to high standards while still giving them autonomy and ownership. Holding someone to a high standard seems like it requires frequently telling them that their work isn't good enough and they need to refine or redo it in some major way. How can people feel ownership while they're being frequently told their output isn't satisfactory? How do you balance firing people who can't perform without creating a culture of fear?
- hayst4ck 3y ago
  I hope this isn't too much too late! Disclaimer: I am not a historian, my knowledge of Rickover is probably wrong and probably low quality. I guess you're kind of asking how did Rickover maintain people's intrinsic motivation (sense of autonomy, mastery, and purpose), despite asking a lot from workers particularly in a frequently hostile way? I think if I had to guess it comes down to two words: "Mission driven." I think Rickover went all in on purpose. I think every single subordinate had explicit responsibility that mattered. Not only that, but there was the greater context of the cold war. It didn't just matter, it mattered. My potentially wrong understanding is that Rickover assigned responsibilities, not tasks. I think Rickover was a pioneer of the technical interview. His interviews were intense and existed to filter out people willing to BS or play games. I think he wanted people who were willing to speak truth to power. I think his interview process, while unconventional, was probably central to his management. Rickover was a major proponent of (liberal) education (as opposed to technical). He strongly believed in molding quality clay and making experts, rather than hiring experts. That means investment. Investing in a person is validation that they are worth investing in. A person who is invested in probably feels a sense of debt. > How can people feel ownership while they're being frequently told their output isn't satisfactory? I think when communicating to someone that their output is unsatisfactory, it can be done in different ways. I think you could tell someone their output is unsatisfactory in a technical way they might even agree with, or you could communicate to someone that they are producing unsatisfactory output. I think that is a night and day distinction. I guess the right question is does the person feel that it is "us vs the problem" or "them vs the manager?" Rickover seemed like a very "us vs the problem" kind of person. I think some workers also don't get told why their work is unsatisfactory, which is very damaging. Knowing the consequences of unsatisfactory work is centering. What is clear is that I think Rickover would have debugged the unsatisfactory output, probably himself. Unrealistic time pressure is a failure of management, not a failure of an employee, so I think Rickover would have been upset if a timeline shifted, but only if he was not told early and told why. My understanding is that it was frequently contractors and people who would fleece the government that would draw his greatest ire. I think the context of getting yelled at matters, too. Getting a verbal shakedown, especially by a CEO, communicates that what you are working on is important and there are real consequences and that you have the power over them. Yelling means you care. When other people care, you care. Things like burnout are often thought of as stress issues, when they have very little to do with stress and a lot to do with progress. Feeling stress but not making progress is what creates burnout. Stress with progress is accomplishment and boosts future stress tolerance because the progress ends up justifying the stress. I don't know if you've heard Gordon Ramsey speak about his abuse, but he makes a distinction between the abuse he experienced from his dad, and the abuse he experienced under Guy Savoy. Guy's abuse was something he valued because it had a purpose, the purpose was to get better food. > How do you balance firing people who can't perform without creating a culture of fear? I think if you have a clear ethos about firing vs training this isn't practically a problem. I had co-workers that I wished were fired. Firing those people would have made me respect management as competent. If you fire someone who should be fired I don't think that creates fear. Not firing dangerous co workers might be an even larger crisis. Arbitrary firing creates fear. A manager firing an employee for what are the managers failures, not the employees, creates fear. If you read about the NTSB investigation of an ATC issue resulting in a runway plane collision that was posted several weeks ago. I think that's relevant. The mistake the ATC made could have been made by anyone. So firing that ATC would have created a culture of fear because any other ATC could have seen themselves in her position. Boeing has a culture of fear, not because people are fired, but because if you speak up, you suddenly become a person fingers can be pointed at, and therefore a target for legal discovery and firing. The fear comes from the people in power not taking responsibility, not the firing. If you fire someone, and people can imagine that being them, that's the culture of fear. Rickover was probably an influence for navy seal leadership which is analyzed in more detail in the very good book Extreme Ownership, which explicitly addresses unsatisfactory workers and firing. If you like Rickover, you'd probably like that book. It is much much better than it looks or sounds.

ramblerman 3y ago

You've given the typical MBA answer - that link included - and dismissed OP as being "youtfully naive". And perhaps he is, but more naive is you notion of we just need to change our beliefs with an article about what "real" leadership looks like. Incentives drive everything! And our financial short term focus squeezing every last drop out of every quarter does not produce long term good quality.

hayst4ck 3y ago
Rickover is about as far from an MBA as you can get, truly. Here is another quote from his speech which agrees with your central point. > One must create the ability in his staff to generate clear, forceful arguments for opposing viewpoints as well as for their own. Open discussions and disagreements must be encouraged, so that all sides of an issue will be fully explored. Further, important issues should be presented in writing. Nothing so sharpens the thought process as writing down one’s arguments. Weaknesses overlooked in oral discussion become painfully obvious on the written page. You are violently agreeing with me and Rickover's speech. You should read it. You will like it. Here is another: > A major flaw in our system of government, and even in industry, is the latitude allowed to do less than is necessary. Too often officials are willing to accept and adapt to situations they know to be wrong. The tendency is to downplay problems instead of actively trying to correct them. Recognizing this, many subordinates give up, contain their views within themselves, and wait for others to take action. When this happens, the manager is deprived of the experience and ideas of subordinates who generally are more knowledgeable than he in their particular areas.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
jvans 3y ago
This is the opposite of an MBA answer. MBAs are famous for hand waving over important details and this answer hammers home the point of them
hayst4ck 3y ago
Here is another speech Admiral Rickover gave to congress: https://www.worldfuturefund.org/Articles/rickover.html https://www.worldfuturefund.org/Articles/rickover.html > A preoccupation with the so-called bottom line of profit and loss statements, coupled with a lust for expansion, is creating an environment in which fewer businessmen honor traditional values; where responsibility is increasingly disassociated from the the exercise of power; where skill in financial manipulation is valued more than actual knowledge and experience in the business; where attention and effort is directed mostly to short-term considerations, regardless of longer-range consequences.

jvans 3y ago

I love this whole speech. I'm curious how people put some of these efforts into practice, particularly holding people to high standards while still giving them autonomy and ownership. Holding someone to a high standard seems like it requires frequently telling them that their work isn't good enough and they need to refine or redo it in some major way. How can people feel ownership while they're being frequently told their output isn't satisfactory? How do you balance firing people who can't perform without creating a culture of fear?

hayst4ck 3y ago
I hope this isn't too much too late! Disclaimer: I am not a historian, my knowledge of Rickover is probably wrong and probably low quality. I guess you're kind of asking how did Rickover maintain people's intrinsic motivation (sense of autonomy, mastery, and purpose), despite asking a lot from workers particularly in a frequently hostile way? I think if I had to guess it comes down to two words: "Mission driven." I think Rickover went all in on purpose. I think every single subordinate had explicit responsibility that mattered. Not only that, but there was the greater context of the cold war. It didn't just matter, it mattered. My potentially wrong understanding is that Rickover assigned responsibilities, not tasks. I think Rickover was a pioneer of the technical interview. His interviews were intense and existed to filter out people willing to BS or play games. I think he wanted people who were willing to speak truth to power. I think his interview process, while unconventional, was probably central to his management. Rickover was a major proponent of (liberal) education (as opposed to technical). He strongly believed in molding quality clay and making experts, rather than hiring experts. That means investment. Investing in a person is validation that they are worth investing in. A person who is invested in probably feels a sense of debt. > How can people feel ownership while they're being frequently told their output isn't satisfactory? I think when communicating to someone that their output is unsatisfactory, it can be done in different ways. I think you could tell someone their output is unsatisfactory in a technical way they might even agree with, or you could communicate to someone that they are producing unsatisfactory output. I think that is a night and day distinction. I guess the right question is does the person feel that it is "us vs the problem" or "them vs the manager?" Rickover seemed like a very "us vs the problem" kind of person. I think some workers also don't get told why their work is unsatisfactory, which is very damaging. Knowing the consequences of unsatisfactory work is centering. What is clear is that I think Rickover would have debugged the unsatisfactory output, probably himself. Unrealistic time pressure is a failure of management, not a failure of an employee, so I think Rickover would have been upset if a timeline shifted, but only if he was not told early and told why. My understanding is that it was frequently contractors and people who would fleece the government that would draw his greatest ire. I think the context of getting yelled at matters, too. Getting a verbal shakedown, especially by a CEO, communicates that what you are working on is important and there are real consequences and that you have the power over them. Yelling means you care. When other people care, you care. Things like burnout are often thought of as stress issues, when they have very little to do with stress and a lot to do with progress. Feeling stress but not making progress is what creates burnout. Stress with progress is accomplishment and boosts future stress tolerance because the progress ends up justifying the stress. I don't know if you've heard Gordon Ramsey speak about his abuse, but he makes a distinction between the abuse he experienced from his dad, and the abuse he experienced under Guy Savoy. Guy's abuse was something he valued because it had a purpose, the purpose was to get better food. > How do you balance firing people who can't perform without creating a culture of fear? I think if you have a clear ethos about firing vs training this isn't practically a problem. I had co-workers that I wished were fired. Firing those people would have made me respect management as competent. If you fire someone who should be fired I don't think that creates fear. Not firing dangerous co workers might be an even larger crisis. Arbitrary firing creates fear. A manager firing an employee for what are the managers failures, not the employees, creates fear. If you read about the NTSB investigation of an ATC issue resulting in a runway plane collision that was posted several weeks ago. I think that's relevant. The mistake the ATC made could have been made by anyone. So firing that ATC would have created a culture of fear because any other ATC could have seen themselves in her position. Boeing has a culture of fear, not because people are fired, but because if you speak up, you suddenly become a person fingers can be pointed at, and therefore a target for legal discovery and firing. The fear comes from the people in power not taking responsibility, not the firing. If you fire someone, and people can imagine that being them, that's the culture of fear. Rickover was probably an influence for navy seal leadership which is analyzed in more detail in the very good book Extreme Ownership, which explicitly addresses unsatisfactory workers and firing. If you like Rickover, you'd probably like that book. It is much much better than it looks or sounds.