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> I can't see this one lasting long with Right to Repair legislation happening I can't see them lasting together either, but that's because I don't see serious

> I can't see this one lasting long with Right to Repair legislation happening I can't see them lasting together either, but that's because I don't see serious Right to Repair legislation happening.

mulmen 3y ago
Is it really necessary to make these kinds of comments? What good comes from spreading negativity? Are you hoping this encourages someone else to be equally dismayed?
- Bjartr 3y ago
  What good comes from avoiding discussion of possible negative outcomes? I'd rather this thread go down the path of what obstacles exist in the face of realizing right to repair in the long term over being an echo chamber about how good it is or something like that.
  - mulmen 3y ago
    No good comes from spreading a defeatist attitude. It undermines any attempt at positive change. A call to action or specific critique may be interesting or constructive. Saying “this will never happen” isn’t helpful and doesn’t invite conversation. > I'd rather this thread go down the path of what obstacles exist in the face of realizing right to repair in the long term over being an echo chamber about how good it is or something like that. The comment in question offers no insight or justification for the belief. How does this encourage the type of conversation you want to see? In fact it does the opposite. It shuts down conversation before it even begins because why waste the effort on a hopeless cause?
    - Bjartr 3y ago
      It's a starting point for a conversation, you could have debated the idea, but you complained about the delivery instead.
      - mulmen 3y ago
        There is no idea to debate. No other comments were made. Fatalistic negativity is no a way to start an interesting conversation.
- dataflow 3y ago
  It's not about spreading negativity, it's about spread awareness. People have been getting tricked about right to repair for many years now. They need to realize what's actually happening.
  - mulmen 3y ago
    What does saying “this will never happen” spread awareness of other than the futility of even trying?
    - dataflow 3y ago
      I never said "this will never happen". I said "I don't see this happening". There's a rather crucial difference between these two. The former is a prediction about the future; the latter is an observation of the current trajectory. Example: Imagine you've dropped out of college, and your mom says that she doesn't see you getting a well-paying job. That doesn't mean she believes you're a lost cause, it just means she believes (whether rightly or wrongly; that's beside the point here) that you need to change course. i.e. she believes you need to stop believing you're on the right path, and that you instead need to finish your studies. To bring the analogy back to R2R: almost much every R2R bill in the US that I've seen so far has been severely crippled by special interests (sometimes at the 11th hour), while conceding just enough (e.g., letting consumers replace a battery just a little less painfully) to make people feel like they're winning a war that they're actually losing pretty hard. So the point here was to make people aware that (I [and others] believe that) the current trajectory isn't very promising as far as reaching their goals, and needs to change.
      - mulmen 3y ago
        > I never said "this will never happen". I said "I don't see this happening". Give me a break. There’s no difference there. > So the point here was to make people aware that (I [and others] believe that) the current trajectory isn't very promising as far as reaching their goals, and needs to change. Then say that instead. Your original comment didn’t even resemble this point. It was drive-by negativity. The only engagement you got was me saying your comment isn’t constructive. Because it isn’t. Nobody else was interested in making up an interesting point to respond to.

> I can't see this one lasting long with Right to Repair legislation happening I can't see them lasting together either, but that's because I don't see serious Right to Repair legislation happening.

mulmen 3y ago

Is it really necessary to make these kinds of comments? What good comes from spreading negativity? Are you hoping this encourages someone else to be equally dismayed?

Bjartr 3y ago
What good comes from avoiding discussion of possible negative outcomes? I'd rather this thread go down the path of what obstacles exist in the face of realizing right to repair in the long term over being an echo chamber about how good it is or something like that.
- mulmen 3y ago
  No good comes from spreading a defeatist attitude. It undermines any attempt at positive change. A call to action or specific critique may be interesting or constructive. Saying “this will never happen” isn’t helpful and doesn’t invite conversation. > I'd rather this thread go down the path of what obstacles exist in the face of realizing right to repair in the long term over being an echo chamber about how good it is or something like that. The comment in question offers no insight or justification for the belief. How does this encourage the type of conversation you want to see? In fact it does the opposite. It shuts down conversation before it even begins because why waste the effort on a hopeless cause?
  - Bjartr 3y ago
    It's a starting point for a conversation, you could have debated the idea, but you complained about the delivery instead.
    - mulmen 3y ago
      There is no idea to debate. No other comments were made. Fatalistic negativity is no a way to start an interesting conversation.
dataflow 3y ago
It's not about spreading negativity, it's about spread awareness. People have been getting tricked about right to repair for many years now. They need to realize what's actually happening.
- mulmen 3y ago
  What does saying “this will never happen” spread awareness of other than the futility of even trying?
  - dataflow 3y ago
    I never said "this will never happen". I said "I don't see this happening". There's a rather crucial difference between these two. The former is a prediction about the future; the latter is an observation of the current trajectory. Example: Imagine you've dropped out of college, and your mom says that she doesn't see you getting a well-paying job. That doesn't mean she believes you're a lost cause, it just means she believes (whether rightly or wrongly; that's beside the point here) that you need to change course. i.e. she believes you need to stop believing you're on the right path, and that you instead need to finish your studies. To bring the analogy back to R2R: almost much every R2R bill in the US that I've seen so far has been severely crippled by special interests (sometimes at the 11th hour), while conceding just enough (e.g., letting consumers replace a battery just a little less painfully) to make people feel like they're winning a war that they're actually losing pretty hard. So the point here was to make people aware that (I [and others] believe that) the current trajectory isn't very promising as far as reaching their goals, and needs to change.
    - mulmen 3y ago
      > I never said "this will never happen". I said "I don't see this happening". Give me a break. There’s no difference there. > So the point here was to make people aware that (I [and others] believe that) the current trajectory isn't very promising as far as reaching their goals, and needs to change. Then say that instead. Your original comment didn’t even resemble this point. It was drive-by negativity. The only engagement you got was me saying your comment isn’t constructive. Because it isn’t. Nobody else was interested in making up an interesting point to respond to.