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Unsurprising. Experienced engineers in this market are like Oracle or IBM post-peak, overly complacent and not used to fight for a job. The kind of people post

Unsurprising. Experienced engineers in this market are like Oracle or IBM post-peak, overly complacent and not used to fight for a job. The kind of people posting on Youtube or making courses about How Everyone Should Code because everyone can get a job coding and no matter how many people join the workforce jobs will always abound. The kind of engineer talking to non-tech people about how they should always negotiate and never settle for a low salary. To jump early and often. The kind of engineer that badmouths recruiters, has no LinkedIn or hasn't maintained one in ages because they can't be bothered with it. Yes, it's stereotypical. But we all know someone who has one or more of these traits. Just like companies struggling to hire were simply not optimising for it (higher salaries, regular salary reviews and raises, smooth and quick recruitment processes, employee-centric work culture, etc), the same happens now to employees. They are unwilling to consider a slight decrease in their salary, lack of remote options, slightly worse work culture, boring companies (no Big N, FAANG or even tech sector companies), legacy codebases, boring tech stacks, less than ideal development processes, etc. You have seen those engineers in reddit. You seen them in LinkedIn. In Tech Conferences. In Youtube. And even here, in HN. The reality is that most of these devs are trying to get a role with perks similar to their previous one and that's not gonna happen for quite a while. The struggle in getting hired is basically the devs going through multi-stage reality check. If you have a job and haven't been served a notice, you can be picky and play the waiting game. If you are about to lose your job or you have already, all that matters is getting ANY job that covers your expenses.

ptero 3y ago
While there is a basis for many of your points, the overall take is a quite a bit too doomsday-ish. Many senior software engineers have financial cushion. This market will probably get worse before it gets better, but like after dotcom boom and 2008 crisis it will recover. And having assets that you can live on for a few years means one doesn't need to dash around panicked to every job posting. My 2c.
- bossyTeacher 3y ago
  Yes, indeed many senior folks are cushioned hence all the moaning. Less financially stable folks are actually applying and prepping not stop because moaning online won't give you a job nor put food on the table. For the financially secure, the options are mostly the same. They just have the additional option of waiting. Their chances of getting a job similar to their previous one is still very low. While they have the option of remaining unemployed but financially secure, and they have the option to literally wait for a few years, this will not look good on their CV. You have two candidates, similar experience, one has a job, the other one hasn't had a job in 2 years. Interviewers from a job market that has been employer driven for the last x years will likely choose the employed one. No employer cares about how financially secure you are. If they have the choice of someone like you but with no recent job gaps or no gaps at all, they will choose the other candidate every single time. Just like an employee will always choose the slightly better company even if both companies are similar.
  - ptero 3y ago
    Agree on "being unemployed does not look great", but senior, financially secure folks that chose to take a year off will likely have "developing tools to deploy X at Y at a stealth startup" or some such on their resume instead. Plus, IME "being umeployed is not great" applies just to chances of getting to the first technical interview. After that, it is just interview-based. Bottom line: I am not shedding any tears for most senior engineering folks who worked through one of the most favorable decades for software engineers. Yes, changing is uncomfortable, but they should have options that are way better than a free soup kitchen. My 2c.
    - bossyTeacher 3y ago
      I agree with you

ptero 3y ago

While there is a basis for many of your points, the overall take is a quite a bit too doomsday-ish. Many senior software engineers have financial cushion. This market will probably get worse before it gets better, but like after dotcom boom and 2008 crisis it will recover. And having assets that you can live on for a few years means one doesn't need to dash around panicked to every job posting. My 2c.

bossyTeacher 3y ago
Yes, indeed many senior folks are cushioned hence all the moaning. Less financially stable folks are actually applying and prepping not stop because moaning online won't give you a job nor put food on the table. For the financially secure, the options are mostly the same. They just have the additional option of waiting. Their chances of getting a job similar to their previous one is still very low. While they have the option of remaining unemployed but financially secure, and they have the option to literally wait for a few years, this will not look good on their CV. You have two candidates, similar experience, one has a job, the other one hasn't had a job in 2 years. Interviewers from a job market that has been employer driven for the last x years will likely choose the employed one. No employer cares about how financially secure you are. If they have the choice of someone like you but with no recent job gaps or no gaps at all, they will choose the other candidate every single time. Just like an employee will always choose the slightly better company even if both companies are similar.
- ptero 3y ago
  Agree on "being unemployed does not look great", but senior, financially secure folks that chose to take a year off will likely have "developing tools to deploy X at Y at a stealth startup" or some such on their resume instead. Plus, IME "being umeployed is not great" applies just to chances of getting to the first technical interview. After that, it is just interview-based. Bottom line: I am not shedding any tears for most senior engineering folks who worked through one of the most favorable decades for software engineers. Yes, changing is uncomfortable, but they should have options that are way better than a free soup kitchen. My 2c.
  - bossyTeacher 3y ago
    I agree with you