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I would argue more than that the housing crisis is an “urban crisis” and a “fraying of the social fabric” crisis. By the first I mean the continued destruction

I would argue more than that the housing crisis is an “urban crisis” and a “fraying of the social fabric” crisis. By the first I mean the continued destruction of smaller towns and semi-rural areas. Even if single family homes are more expensive to build than multi family apartments, the fact is we have ridiculous amounts of space in this country. But most people for various reasons don’t want to live where the space and “affordable” housing is or can be built. The more our population drifts to major metro areas for economic reasons and the more jobs go to where the people are, the worse housing affordability will be, even if we build huge sky rises and cram everyone into Tokyo size apartments. By the second I mean that people want their own bars, theaters and restaurants at home because in a lot of cases going out to the shared versions of these sucks, sometimes a lot. There’s an overall lack of respect for being in public that just seems to permeates the American culture right now. In my own experience just this past week someone was completely oblivious to the fact that I was leaving a parking space and their doors were open and they were flitting about making leaving unsafe. It only broke through to them when a gust of wind caught their door and slammed it into my car, to which they hurriedly apologized and swore it would “buff out” and then ran away. Or the taxi driver who parked in the middle of the lot lane waiting for their fare blocking the whole exit. There was the restaurant patron loudly having an argument on their cell phone. The cashier who was so stoned or distracted they needed 3 tries to get the order right. Or the waiter who got into a literal shouting match with their co-worker to which management did nothing but watch. The theater floor is stickier than a fly trap and the seats aren’t much better. The food is awful, and over priced. The cost of just a few games of pool at the bar is crazy, even before factoring in your drink will cost you 4-6x what you could get it for at home and be lukewarm. Why would people want to go to these shared places or live where they can’t have the space for their own version when this is more and more the norm.

foxyv 3y ago
A huge reason these shared spaces are so miserable is because the communities around them cannot support them. Parking minimums and low density means that not only are these commercial properties insanely expensive, but also that not enough people can access them. A huge upside to increasing density is that the theatre goes from having 100 people within 4 miles of it to 10,000. In addition, instead of having a 400 car parking lot surrounding it like a moat, people just walk right in off the sidewalk. This means the theatre makes more money and pays less in rent. This means they can hire more people to keep it clean and safe. You start to get theaters like this: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Path%C3%A9+Rembrandt+Utrecht/@52.0938844,5.1164051,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipOzLRX9RE8FCOwjY1iLPbQgkVmiEjQpmrgtK4H3!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOzLRX9RE8FCOwjY1iLPbQgkVmiEjQpmrgtK4H3%3Dw129-h86-k-no!7i8688!8i5792!4m7!3m6!1s0x47c66f438382ffd3:0x4ef0a811f23182d4!8m2!3d52.0938375!4d5.116303!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F12dpwpt6b?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/place/Path%C3%A9+Rembrandt+Utrec...
- 10u152 3y ago
  Cost is a factor but you can have all this and car parking. Plenty of developments in my city are mixed use. 3 or 4 levels of underground parking, then retail, supermarkets on ground floor then bars, gyms, pools, restaurants on the next few and and 20 or 30 levels of apartments on top. And people can walk straight off the street into the building.
  - foxyv 3y ago
    It sounds like you live in a very affluent area. There are ways to build cities like you live in that are affordable to everyone. But minimum parking standards make it almost impossible.
- tpmoney 3y ago
  >A huge reason these shared spaces are so miserable is because the communities around them cannot support them. Parking minimums and low density means that not only are these commercial properties insanely expensive, but also that not enough people can access them. That might be a small part of it, but some of the places I'm talking about have been there for 30+ years. And they were better before, when the population was even less dense than it is now. Culture plays a HUGE part in this stuff, and I think much bigger than any parking minimums or housing densities. Compare NYC at the various decades over the year to see an obvious example. There are decades where NYC would be a nice place to live if you're a urbanite, and others where it would have been absolutely miserable no matter how much you like high rise tenements. And my personal feeling is right now the US as a whole is going through a down turn with respect to public behavior and pride, and as a result people want their own versions of these things. I think one place where density does have a factor is in being able to support multiple versions of something. You don't want your local theater servicing 10,000 people. You want the scales to be tilted more towards 100 theaters servicing 100 people each. Both for variety but also because each can serve the specific desires of a specific clientele. Part of the problem with shared spaces is you can only be so much to so many people before either you're not what they want when they want it, or you're so diluted that you're not what anyone wants.
adamisom 3y ago
I just went to Panda Express for lunch--yeah yeah, it's not fancy at all, but it's a step above McDonald's--and someone begged me for food. Cue a bunch of online warriors on their high horses implying I'm a bad person for not prioritizing their need over my negative experience. I'm still going to second-guess going out to eat a little bit, though. I want to create my own beautiful bubble, and that might be home. Everyone on Earth should curate their own bubble--should live the life they want. This is not at all contradictory with efficient aid to help the unfortunate.
- foxyv 3y ago
  If you want to live in a mansion and can afford it I say "All the power to you!" But all the rest of us will be happy to live in an affordable place where we can get a slice of pizza and a cold beer without driving 20 minutes. Also, I know I want to see that homeless person begging for food living in an affordable community that has plenty of extra economic power to provide all the Panda Express he can eat! You are not a bad person for wanting to live in a mansion or even just a bungalow far away from the city center. That's honestly pretty great! In fact, it's my hope that building walkable, affordable communities will make it even easier for you to afford and live in such a place.
  - tomcar288 3y ago
    eating out at panda express or other fast food restaurants is quite the luxury and not achievable every day for most of society. I'm always perplexed that a poorer person would ask for something so costly. At costco I can get whole wheat for about 70c per pound. Which means I can make an entire days worth of bread for just 80c. Beans, 2$/day, greens are mostly free if you know what to look for and where, or grow it. These are all about x10 to x20 cheaper than panda express or other fast food.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  What is your reasoning here? Cities are 'bad' from something as minor as that? We all deal with things we dislike, such as stoplights, rain, or bad news on TV. Let's not even start on traffic! Where will you find this idyllic place to call home? FWIW, it might be alien at first but there's nothing to be afraid of from people who want some food, any more than from anyone else. That is based on long experience with zero problems in many places. Those are the vulnerable people; it's the powerful ones you need to watch out for. > Cue a bunch of online warriors on their high horses You violated HN guidelines before anyone even replied!
hindsightbias 3y ago
> By the first I mean the continued destruction of smaller towns and semi-rural areas. Self-destruction. They are not victims.
- tpmoney 3y ago
  OK. So what? Are we more interested in solutions to a “housing affordability crisis” or are we more interested in making sure some old codgers who are stuck in their ways and oppose the march of progress get their just desserts? And if you’re interested in both, what better way than to encourage a mass of young blood and modern companies to move in and gentrify the area?
closeparen 3y ago
Small towns and semi-rural areas squander their land with the exact same ass-ugly car-centric public realms you'll find in the suburbs of major metro areas. They just get less attention for it since the land in question is abundant. There are examples of small towns with good urbanism - a lot of college towns fit this bill - but they are so rare that they just replicate big-city level prices, without the high-productivity jobs to pay them.

foxyv 3y ago

A huge reason these shared spaces are so miserable is because the communities around them cannot support them. Parking minimums and low density means that not only are these commercial properties insanely expensive, but also that not enough people can access them. A huge upside to increasing density is that the theatre goes from having 100 people within 4 miles of it to 10,000. In addition, instead of having a 400 car parking lot surrounding it like a moat, people just walk right in off the sidewalk. This means the theatre makes more money and pays less in rent. This means they can hire more people to keep it clean and safe. You start to get theaters like this: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Path%C3%A9+Rembrandt+Utrecht/@52.0938844,5.1164051,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipOzLRX9RE8FCOwjY1iLPbQgkVmiEjQpmrgtK4H3!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOzLRX9RE8FCOwjY1iLPbQgkVmiEjQpmrgtK4H3%3Dw129-h86-k-no!7i8688!8i5792!4m7!3m6!1s0x47c66f438382ffd3:0x4ef0a811f23182d4!8m2!3d52.0938375!4d5.116303!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F12dpwpt6b?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/place/Path%C3%A9+Rembrandt+Utrec...

10u152 3y ago
Cost is a factor but you can have all this and car parking. Plenty of developments in my city are mixed use. 3 or 4 levels of underground parking, then retail, supermarkets on ground floor then bars, gyms, pools, restaurants on the next few and and 20 or 30 levels of apartments on top. And people can walk straight off the street into the building.
- foxyv 3y ago
  It sounds like you live in a very affluent area. There are ways to build cities like you live in that are affordable to everyone. But minimum parking standards make it almost impossible.
tpmoney 3y ago
>A huge reason these shared spaces are so miserable is because the communities around them cannot support them. Parking minimums and low density means that not only are these commercial properties insanely expensive, but also that not enough people can access them. That might be a small part of it, but some of the places I'm talking about have been there for 30+ years. And they were better before, when the population was even less dense than it is now. Culture plays a HUGE part in this stuff, and I think much bigger than any parking minimums or housing densities. Compare NYC at the various decades over the year to see an obvious example. There are decades where NYC would be a nice place to live if you're a urbanite, and others where it would have been absolutely miserable no matter how much you like high rise tenements. And my personal feeling is right now the US as a whole is going through a down turn with respect to public behavior and pride, and as a result people want their own versions of these things. I think one place where density does have a factor is in being able to support multiple versions of something. You don't want your local theater servicing 10,000 people. You want the scales to be tilted more towards 100 theaters servicing 100 people each. Both for variety but also because each can serve the specific desires of a specific clientele. Part of the problem with shared spaces is you can only be so much to so many people before either you're not what they want when they want it, or you're so diluted that you're not what anyone wants.

adamisom 3y ago

I just went to Panda Express for lunch--yeah yeah, it's not fancy at all, but it's a step above McDonald's--and someone begged me for food. Cue a bunch of online warriors on their high horses implying I'm a bad person for not prioritizing their need over my negative experience. I'm still going to second-guess going out to eat a little bit, though. I want to create my own beautiful bubble, and that might be home. Everyone on Earth should curate their own bubble--should live the life they want. This is not at all contradictory with efficient aid to help the unfortunate.

foxyv 3y ago
If you want to live in a mansion and can afford it I say "All the power to you!" But all the rest of us will be happy to live in an affordable place where we can get a slice of pizza and a cold beer without driving 20 minutes. Also, I know I want to see that homeless person begging for food living in an affordable community that has plenty of extra economic power to provide all the Panda Express he can eat! You are not a bad person for wanting to live in a mansion or even just a bungalow far away from the city center. That's honestly pretty great! In fact, it's my hope that building walkable, affordable communities will make it even easier for you to afford and live in such a place.
- tomcar288 3y ago
  eating out at panda express or other fast food restaurants is quite the luxury and not achievable every day for most of society. I'm always perplexed that a poorer person would ask for something so costly. At costco I can get whole wheat for about 70c per pound. Which means I can make an entire days worth of bread for just 80c. Beans, 2$/day, greens are mostly free if you know what to look for and where, or grow it. These are all about x10 to x20 cheaper than panda express or other fast food.
wolverine876 3y ago
What is your reasoning here? Cities are 'bad' from something as minor as that? We all deal with things we dislike, such as stoplights, rain, or bad news on TV. Let's not even start on traffic! Where will you find this idyllic place to call home? FWIW, it might be alien at first but there's nothing to be afraid of from people who want some food, any more than from anyone else. That is based on long experience with zero problems in many places. Those are the vulnerable people; it's the powerful ones you need to watch out for. > Cue a bunch of online warriors on their high horses You violated HN guidelines before anyone even replied!

hindsightbias 3y ago

> By the first I mean the continued destruction of smaller towns and semi-rural areas. Self-destruction. They are not victims.

tpmoney 3y ago
OK. So what? Are we more interested in solutions to a “housing affordability crisis” or are we more interested in making sure some old codgers who are stuck in their ways and oppose the march of progress get their just desserts? And if you’re interested in both, what better way than to encourage a mass of young blood and modern companies to move in and gentrify the area?

closeparen 3y ago

Small towns and semi-rural areas squander their land with the exact same ass-ugly car-centric public realms you'll find in the suburbs of major metro areas. They just get less attention for it since the land in question is abundant. There are examples of small towns with good urbanism - a lot of college towns fit this bill - but they are so rare that they just replicate big-city level prices, without the high-productivity jobs to pay them.