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Zuckerberg had big push in 2015s to reenter PRC, Google had Dragonfly, but IIRC they were killed internally because employees protested at least for Google. Bin

Zuckerberg had big push in 2015s to reenter PRC, Google had Dragonfly, but IIRC they were killed internally because employees protested at least for Google. Bing's still in China. PRC fine with western platforms, as long as they censor like domestic PRC platforms and hand over dissident info, where dissident is whoever PRC says it is. Morally it's complicateded, economically it's probably not that profitable in long run, but regulatorily, it's straight forward. If anything PRC would love to have that leverage and try to get western platforms to extend censorship to PRC dissidents abroad.

alephnerd 3y ago
Ergo, it's fine for the US to force ByteDance to divest from TikTok if they do not follow American laws.
- maxglute 3y ago
  Obviously, when did I suggest otherwise? The only difference is TikTok has more lawfare room due to 1st amendment shenanigans. Otherwise they'll be forced withdraw, no way PRC going to normalize US forcing PRC origin companies from divesting due to US pressure. The only other consideration is weighing benefits of banning TikTok vs cons for such behaviour spreading to other global jursidiction in the future against US platforms/interests.
almatabata 3y ago
> If anything PRC would love to have that leverage and try to get western platforms to extend censorship to PRC dissidents abroad. Reminds me of that episode with activision/blizzard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzchung_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzchung_controversy In this case its the fear of losing business with China that is pushing the platform to apply standards to people who are not Chinese citizen.
- maxglute 3y ago
  Bingo, media is really one of those sectors where PRC has assymetric advantage in exploiting western corporations vs western corp in PRC will never get PRC media filtering to budge. Hence TikTok ban/divestment is really about just pushing TikTok out of US/or world with app ban, there's too much risk to a mediated outcome where PRC can still exert assymetric influence.
  - almatabata 3y ago
    > Bingo, media is really one of those sectors where PRC has assymetric advantage in exploiting western corporations vs western corp in PRC will never get PRC media filtering to budge They really do. The idea was that by doing business with them they would shift away from authoritarianism. If you look at the last years it is clear that exactly the reverse has happened. Companies are mainly profit driven and not by morals. They will happily compromise on their morals in the name of profit. In contrast the PRC will happily compromise on profits to keep control.

alephnerd 3y ago

Ergo, it's fine for the US to force ByteDance to divest from TikTok if they do not follow American laws.

maxglute 3y ago
Obviously, when did I suggest otherwise? The only difference is TikTok has more lawfare room due to 1st amendment shenanigans. Otherwise they'll be forced withdraw, no way PRC going to normalize US forcing PRC origin companies from divesting due to US pressure. The only other consideration is weighing benefits of banning TikTok vs cons for such behaviour spreading to other global jursidiction in the future against US platforms/interests.

almatabata 3y ago

> If anything PRC would love to have that leverage and try to get western platforms to extend censorship to PRC dissidents abroad. Reminds me of that episode with activision/blizzard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzchung_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzchung_controversy In this case its the fear of losing business with China that is pushing the platform to apply standards to people who are not Chinese citizen.

maxglute 3y ago
Bingo, media is really one of those sectors where PRC has assymetric advantage in exploiting western corporations vs western corp in PRC will never get PRC media filtering to budge. Hence TikTok ban/divestment is really about just pushing TikTok out of US/or world with app ban, there's too much risk to a mediated outcome where PRC can still exert assymetric influence.
- almatabata 3y ago
  > Bingo, media is really one of those sectors where PRC has assymetric advantage in exploiting western corporations vs western corp in PRC will never get PRC media filtering to budge They really do. The idea was that by doing business with them they would shift away from authoritarianism. If you look at the last years it is clear that exactly the reverse has happened. Companies are mainly profit driven and not by morals. They will happily compromise on their morals in the name of profit. In contrast the PRC will happily compromise on profits to keep control.