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Or it shows US platforms like instagram is thoroughly infiltrated by US propaganda. Or antiPRC people aren't likely on TikTok in the first place. Or how US misi

Or it shows US platforms like instagram is thoroughly infiltrated by US propaganda. Or antiPRC people aren't likely on TikTok in the first place. Or how US misinformation networks can't be weaponized on TikTok in the same way as western owned platforms staffed by US ex intelligence. Both in it's abillity to inject narrative or control narrative of others. For all we know, TikTok is the baseline of global sentimentality and Instagram is anomolie of US influence operations. Is TikTok aligned to PRC interests, or neutral but only seeingly aligned because TikTok is simply not specifically aligned to US interests like other US platforms. Ultimately it's the latter that's the problem for US ability to shape narrative.

alephnerd 3y ago
Point blank - why not allow Facebook, Google, and WhatsApp operate in China without governmental interference? If ByteDance can operate their platform in the US, then Meta and Alphabet should as well.
- maxglute 3y ago
  Straight up - because domestic players operate with government interferance. Which comes with onerous moderation overheads and compliance costs. Why should western platforms have competitive advantage of... not? Like this is simple as hell. Why should western platforms not follow onerous PRC compliance that PRC companies have to follow? Bytedance operates with respect to US law. If US wants reciprical PRC arrangement, like US platforms operate in PRC, they can legislate to force Bytedance to have local proxy like Oracle, or divest. The former fell apart. TikTok move to silo US data out of PRC... but still accused of retaining access. As if Microsoft in PRC is completely siloed. Regardless, until then, Bytedance is going to abuse the full extent of US law, including 1st amendment challenges. Then it's on Bytedance to comply or withdrawl. They'll likely do the latter and PRC retaliation will be calibrated on whether TikTok is just gone from US or world via app store bans.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Fair enough! Sorry for being a bit snippy - there have been some weird takes on both sides of this, so I have a bit of a short fuse. > Microsoft in PRC is completely siloed MS China (or at least Azure and all their Enterprise SaaS offerings) are a reskin around Tencent Cloud and Tencent's Enterprise SaaS offerings. Most American Enterprise SaaS Vendors won't sell their product directly in China as Chinese IP Law around Software Patents is a bit unfriendly to foreign offerings. It has lead to the development is a pretty cool domestic Enterprise SaaS market in China though, and has had a positive downstream impact such as with KubeAdmiral. IMO, a western Open Core startup would have an easier time targeting the Chinese market as you can create two different enterprise SKUs - one for China and one for the rest - and not have to worry about IP Law hassles.

alephnerd 3y ago

Point blank - why not allow Facebook, Google, and WhatsApp operate in China without governmental interference? If ByteDance can operate their platform in the US, then Meta and Alphabet should as well.

maxglute 3y ago
Straight up - because domestic players operate with government interferance. Which comes with onerous moderation overheads and compliance costs. Why should western platforms have competitive advantage of... not? Like this is simple as hell. Why should western platforms not follow onerous PRC compliance that PRC companies have to follow? Bytedance operates with respect to US law. If US wants reciprical PRC arrangement, like US platforms operate in PRC, they can legislate to force Bytedance to have local proxy like Oracle, or divest. The former fell apart. TikTok move to silo US data out of PRC... but still accused of retaining access. As if Microsoft in PRC is completely siloed. Regardless, until then, Bytedance is going to abuse the full extent of US law, including 1st amendment challenges. Then it's on Bytedance to comply or withdrawl. They'll likely do the latter and PRC retaliation will be calibrated on whether TikTok is just gone from US or world via app store bans.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  Fair enough! Sorry for being a bit snippy - there have been some weird takes on both sides of this, so I have a bit of a short fuse. > Microsoft in PRC is completely siloed MS China (or at least Azure and all their Enterprise SaaS offerings) are a reskin around Tencent Cloud and Tencent's Enterprise SaaS offerings. Most American Enterprise SaaS Vendors won't sell their product directly in China as Chinese IP Law around Software Patents is a bit unfriendly to foreign offerings. It has lead to the development is a pretty cool domestic Enterprise SaaS market in China though, and has had a positive downstream impact such as with KubeAdmiral. IMO, a western Open Core startup would have an easier time targeting the Chinese market as you can create two different enterprise SKUs - one for China and one for the rest - and not have to worry about IP Law hassles.