5 ms·

I live and work in the Bay Area. Coming from Spain, where I was born and began my career in an US company, I have to say that the situation is very different th

by ews 18y ago

I live and work in the Bay Area. Coming from Spain, where I was born and began my career in an US company, I have to say that the situation is very different that what is pictured here (and in the 'Joy of vivre' entry): Spain and other southereuropean or Mediterranean countries have a big combination of emotions and impulses that make them think they are not productive enough. To solve this, they apply a patch consisting or working more hours (in Madrid, people usually work 9-7 the least (and surprisingly at bigger companies such Google and Yahoo! it could be even more)) without understanding that working more is not working better or more productive. Being alienated with this working hors, most Spaniards rely on playing solitaries or youtubing on their terminals until the time to leave the office, feeding the vicious cycle all over again. The managers in Spain don't trust their employees. Knowing this, employees optimize their time to do the least possible for not being fired. In my experience, I have a far better life working in San Francisco. I usually go to work at 12-1pm, come back around 6 or seven and hack some hours in the late evening/early morning. I work at least once per day (usually two) and have as many vacations day as I had in Spain (actually some more days) with the possibility of non paid vacations or working from Europe when I visit my family. I have seen this with many other engineers expatriated from Europe and relocated into the Bay Area. Besides being with like minded individuals, in this city I am relaxed enough and know the company trusts me enough to keep me working way more motivated, at nearly the fullest of my capacity.

ardit33 18y ago
well I can tell you for sure that is only a San Francisco/Bay area thing. I lived in the east coast (Boston), and have many friends that live in NYC, and the culture is very different over there. If you are not in by 9 am., it looks bad. Even if you are done with your work, and more, or can't be any more productive, you still have to stay in to put your hours. You feel extra guilty just for asking a couple of hours off to go to the dentist or fix your car. etc. etc. Management doesn't trust you for sure, and half of the sites or the internet are blocked. If you work in the financial industry, you can't use any external/personal email, im, or whatever. My company even disabled SMS from company phones. Yes, it can be that bad even in the US. So, what you discribing, as rolling in a 10-11am is ok, is just a California thing, and most importantly a startup world thing, so don't generalise it for the whole US.
- jbjohns 18y ago
  Looks like you have it ok in NY as well. I worked in the south in a "right to work" state. The base hours were 45 and you were expected to be in your desk by 7:30. They had automatic badge readers on the door which when unlock when your badge got within a few feet of it. One of the executives was using the data from these to see when people were coming in and wanted to start punishing people for clocking in after 7:25. He figured you needed 5 minutes to get in your desk. All internet was disabled by default. If your job absolutely required something you would need to go through red tape to get the specific site you need turned on. Vacation was 1-2 weeks after you finished your first year, 3 weeks after 7 years and 4 weeks after 15.
  - gojomo 18y ago
    If you cannot name the employer, can you at least say their industry, or whether they have thrived versus competitors (including competitors from other regions) with such policies?
    - jbjohns 18y ago
      I can't name either (because saying the sector and how successful they are would be saying who they are). As far as success; they are miles ahead of their nearest competitor.... in the US. They only do well in places that allow one to abuse labor.
- time_management 18y ago
  I lived in the east coast (Boston), and have many friends that live in NYC, and the culture is very different over there. If you are not in by 9 am., it looks bad. Even if you are done with your work, and more, or can't be any more productive, you still have to stay in to put your hours. You feel extra guilty just for asking a couple of hours off to go to the dentist or fix your car. etc. etc. Management doesn't trust you for sure, and half of the sites or the internet are blocked. If you work in the financial industry, you can't use any external/personal email, im, or whatever. The email firewall is there for security reasons, or so it's said. I don't know that what you're describing is a "New York" phenomenon, but it's certainly true on Wall Street. I worked at a hedge fund where I ran into exactly what you're talking about. I developed substantial health problems for a period of about 2 months. Having a strong work ethic, and not wanting to call in sick needlessly (it wasn't contagious) I showed up to work whenever I could-- sometimes arriving late or leaving early, or taking a midday break, but still putting in the 45-50 hours that was expected. I found out the hard way that it's worse to show up a half-hour late because of illness than to call in sick and throw out a day-- this is obviously stupid, inefficient, and bizarre. I had a new boss who gave me a ration of shit for showing up 8 minutes late (I was puking during that 8 minutes; thanks) and threatened to fire me. I sent him an email basically telling him that I worked for the company, not him, and that it was unfair both to me, but "more importantly" unfair to the company, to destroy a day's worth of my productivity over 8 minutes in the morning. I don't work there any more.

by ews 18y ago

ardit33 18y ago

well I can tell you for sure that is only a San Francisco/Bay area thing. I lived in the east coast (Boston), and have many friends that live in NYC, and the culture is very different over there. If you are not in by 9 am., it looks bad. Even if you are done with your work, and more, or can't be any more productive, you still have to stay in to put your hours. You feel extra guilty just for asking a couple of hours off to go to the dentist or fix your car. etc. etc. Management doesn't trust you for sure, and half of the sites or the internet are blocked. If you work in the financial industry, you can't use any external/personal email, im, or whatever. My company even disabled SMS from company phones. Yes, it can be that bad even in the US. So, what you discribing, as rolling in a 10-11am is ok, is just a California thing, and most importantly a startup world thing, so don't generalise it for the whole US.

jbjohns 18y ago
Looks like you have it ok in NY as well. I worked in the south in a "right to work" state. The base hours were 45 and you were expected to be in your desk by 7:30. They had automatic badge readers on the door which when unlock when your badge got within a few feet of it. One of the executives was using the data from these to see when people were coming in and wanted to start punishing people for clocking in after 7:25. He figured you needed 5 minutes to get in your desk. All internet was disabled by default. If your job absolutely required something you would need to go through red tape to get the specific site you need turned on. Vacation was 1-2 weeks after you finished your first year, 3 weeks after 7 years and 4 weeks after 15.
- gojomo 18y ago
  If you cannot name the employer, can you at least say their industry, or whether they have thrived versus competitors (including competitors from other regions) with such policies?
  - jbjohns 18y ago
    I can't name either (because saying the sector and how successful they are would be saying who they are). As far as success; they are miles ahead of their nearest competitor.... in the US. They only do well in places that allow one to abuse labor.
time_management 18y ago
I lived in the east coast (Boston), and have many friends that live in NYC, and the culture is very different over there. If you are not in by 9 am., it looks bad. Even if you are done with your work, and more, or can't be any more productive, you still have to stay in to put your hours. You feel extra guilty just for asking a couple of hours off to go to the dentist or fix your car. etc. etc. Management doesn't trust you for sure, and half of the sites or the internet are blocked. If you work in the financial industry, you can't use any external/personal email, im, or whatever. The email firewall is there for security reasons, or so it's said. I don't know that what you're describing is a "New York" phenomenon, but it's certainly true on Wall Street. I worked at a hedge fund where I ran into exactly what you're talking about. I developed substantial health problems for a period of about 2 months. Having a strong work ethic, and not wanting to call in sick needlessly (it wasn't contagious) I showed up to work whenever I could-- sometimes arriving late or leaving early, or taking a midday break, but still putting in the 45-50 hours that was expected. I found out the hard way that it's worse to show up a half-hour late because of illness than to call in sick and throw out a day-- this is obviously stupid, inefficient, and bizarre. I had a new boss who gave me a ration of shit for showing up 8 minutes late (I was puking during that 8 minutes; thanks) and threatened to fire me. I sent him an email basically telling him that I worked for the company, not him, and that it was unfair both to me, but "more importantly" unfair to the company, to destroy a day's worth of my productivity over 8 minutes in the morning. I don't work there any more.