4 ms·

If they don't like it, they can move. It is funny how people criticize the US "colonialism" yet feel entitled that they should be able to move into any neighbo

If they don't like it, they can move. It is funny how people criticize the US "colonialism" yet feel entitled that they should be able to move into any neighborhood and drive out current inhabitants.

cortesoft 3y ago
Do you think we should not allow specific groups of people to live in certain areas?
- dixie_land 3y ago
  No one is allowing or disallowing specific groups of people, the market decides. Is Ferrari "not allow specific groups of people" (I am in that group) to buy their cars by not pricing them the same as a Honda?
  - ryukafalz 3y ago
    The market is not deciding when municipalities are legally prohibiting denser, lower-cost housing from being built. To use your example, it's as if we were to restrict car production to mostly only Ferraris. And then if someone can't afford a Ferrari, we tell them to buy a Honda - but there aren't many of them to buy.
    - iteria 3y ago
      But there are reasons for municipalities to do that. Namely infrastructure. The city next to mine allowed uncontrolled building of housing and that city is a shitshow right now. The roads are clogged and often gridlocked. They deal with all kinds of failure modes in their utilities due to high usage. No. My town is being more strategic about it. They allowed businesses to come in first and expanded out the robustness of the local coop's electric grid and only then did they allow appartments and they are doing them in stages to make sure the area can handle it. This is important in an area where not everyone is even hooked up to the city's water supply or has access to city sewage.
      - ryukafalz 3y ago
        Sure, municipalities do need to consider infrastructure. I was just responding to someone saying that the market decides who can live in an area, which just isn't the full picture. In areas where the power grid is struggling to keep up with demand, the municipality will need to plan with that in account. If you expand housing in an area where you've made driving the only transportation option, that will straightforwardly lead to more cars on the road. And so on. But at least in my area, municipalities largely seem to be trying to keep housing density at or below the level it's at now, which is a problem when we're facing a housing shortage.
- ReptileMan 3y ago
  Why not - there are a lot of non-citizens in a lot of places with very hot markets. I don't see good reason why they should enjoy all the freedoms that the citizens have. This will destroy some of the demand.
  - cortesoft 3y ago
    So we would have a rule that you aren’t allowed to move out of the neighborhood you grew up in?
lanfeust6 3y ago
Who said anything about driving out? And neighborhoods belong to municipalities, voters ultimately decide, not your small cabal of neighbors.
- dixie_land 3y ago
  I agree the voters should decide, and in this case they happen to side with NIMBY
  - lanfeust6 3y ago
    Until they don't. Which is happening country-wide.
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    Not the state's voters!
alright2565 3y ago
"drive out current inhabitants" by offering one of them an entirely voluntary and mutually beneficial deal? Or do you mean that existing owner should be required to get their neighbors' consent to do what they want with their own property? Anyone selling their home would, all other things being equal, prefer to sell their home to an neighbor with which they have a relationship then to a random person. The neighbors should make an offer if they really care.

If they don't like it, they can move. It is funny how people criticize the US "colonialism" yet feel entitled that they should be able to move into any neighborhood and drive out current inhabitants.

cortesoft 3y ago

Do you think we should not allow specific groups of people to live in certain areas?

dixie_land 3y ago
No one is allowing or disallowing specific groups of people, the market decides. Is Ferrari "not allow specific groups of people" (I am in that group) to buy their cars by not pricing them the same as a Honda?
- ryukafalz 3y ago
  The market is not deciding when municipalities are legally prohibiting denser, lower-cost housing from being built. To use your example, it's as if we were to restrict car production to mostly only Ferraris. And then if someone can't afford a Ferrari, we tell them to buy a Honda - but there aren't many of them to buy.
  - iteria 3y ago
    But there are reasons for municipalities to do that. Namely infrastructure. The city next to mine allowed uncontrolled building of housing and that city is a shitshow right now. The roads are clogged and often gridlocked. They deal with all kinds of failure modes in their utilities due to high usage. No. My town is being more strategic about it. They allowed businesses to come in first and expanded out the robustness of the local coop's electric grid and only then did they allow appartments and they are doing them in stages to make sure the area can handle it. This is important in an area where not everyone is even hooked up to the city's water supply or has access to city sewage.
    - ryukafalz 3y ago
      Sure, municipalities do need to consider infrastructure. I was just responding to someone saying that the market decides who can live in an area, which just isn't the full picture. In areas where the power grid is struggling to keep up with demand, the municipality will need to plan with that in account. If you expand housing in an area where you've made driving the only transportation option, that will straightforwardly lead to more cars on the road. And so on. But at least in my area, municipalities largely seem to be trying to keep housing density at or below the level it's at now, which is a problem when we're facing a housing shortage.
ReptileMan 3y ago
Why not - there are a lot of non-citizens in a lot of places with very hot markets. I don't see good reason why they should enjoy all the freedoms that the citizens have. This will destroy some of the demand.
- cortesoft 3y ago
  So we would have a rule that you aren’t allowed to move out of the neighborhood you grew up in?

lanfeust6 3y ago

Who said anything about driving out? And neighborhoods belong to municipalities, voters ultimately decide, not your small cabal of neighbors.

dixie_land 3y ago
I agree the voters should decide, and in this case they happen to side with NIMBY
- lanfeust6 3y ago
  Until they don't. Which is happening country-wide.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  Not the state's voters!

alright2565 3y ago

"drive out current inhabitants" by offering one of them an entirely voluntary and mutually beneficial deal? Or do you mean that existing owner should be required to get their neighbors' consent to do what they want with their own property? Anyone selling their home would, all other things being equal, prefer to sell their home to an neighbor with which they have a relationship then to a random person. The neighbors should make an offer if they really care.