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This seems like we're just going to be playing whack-a-mole with the next thing that pops up (perhaps an even more nefarious or nebulously owned app). Why woul

This seems like we're just going to be playing whack-a-mole with the next thing that pops up (perhaps an even more nefarious or nebulously owned app). Why would we not create better data privacy laws and/or ban the sale/transfer of PII to enemy countries if that's the problem we're trying to solve?

zaphar 3y ago
Because that is not the really the whole problem we are trying to solve. At root of the TikTok problem is the fact that a nation like China is not playing on a level playing field in our Free Market. A free market works when all the participants are playing on a level playing field. TikTok is not because China as a country does not believe or follow free market principles. As such to further their national goals they will happily bend and break all of our rules with no real way for us to prevent or even detect it. You can't treat Chinese companies the same way as US companies or even most European countries. They won't play by the rules. You have to treat them differently. The experiment we started in the 90's to try to export Free Market to the world was interesting but the data shows that it doesn't actually work in Autocratic countries. It's time to stop pretending like it produces good outcomes overall.
- frumper 3y ago
  This bill doesn't even address that. If you want to ban Chinese owned companies because they ban ours, then present that. This is 1 company being targeted, with the potential for maybe some more later. That leaves all the rest operating as normal.
- SteveNuts 3y ago
  To be honest, I still don't see the issue here. TikTok is tying into existing APIs that any app can also use. There is nothing special there other than the user's data may end up in the Chinese government's hands (but... again, TikTok isn't special there). I think we really need to think about the problem we're trying to solve here carefully, because saying "you can't watch these types of videos because reasons" is the slippery slope of all slippery slopes. ETA: I do agree that TikTok is probably a bad thing overall, realistically it could be used to subtly social engineer the entire US population by controlling the content people see. But I don't think just outright banning TikTok is the answer. But didn't Facebook also do the same thing in the election? What are the ramifications for something like Youtube which tailors your recommended videos based on your history (you watch one Joe Rogan clip and now it starts to show right wing/conspiracy videos).
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zaphar 3y ago

Because that is not the really the whole problem we are trying to solve. At root of the TikTok problem is the fact that a nation like China is not playing on a level playing field in our Free Market. A free market works when all the participants are playing on a level playing field. TikTok is not because China as a country does not believe or follow free market principles. As such to further their national goals they will happily bend and break all of our rules with no real way for us to prevent or even detect it. You can't treat Chinese companies the same way as US companies or even most European countries. They won't play by the rules. You have to treat them differently. The experiment we started in the 90's to try to export Free Market to the world was interesting but the data shows that it doesn't actually work in Autocratic countries. It's time to stop pretending like it produces good outcomes overall.

frumper 3y ago
This bill doesn't even address that. If you want to ban Chinese owned companies because they ban ours, then present that. This is 1 company being targeted, with the potential for maybe some more later. That leaves all the rest operating as normal.
SteveNuts 3y ago
To be honest, I still don't see the issue here. TikTok is tying into existing APIs that any app can also use. There is nothing special there other than the user's data may end up in the Chinese government's hands (but... again, TikTok isn't special there). I think we really need to think about the problem we're trying to solve here carefully, because saying "you can't watch these types of videos because reasons" is the slippery slope of all slippery slopes. ETA: I do agree that TikTok is probably a bad thing overall, realistically it could be used to subtly social engineer the entire US population by controlling the content people see. But I don't think just outright banning TikTok is the answer. But didn't Facebook also do the same thing in the election? What are the ramifications for something like Youtube which tailors your recommended videos based on your history (you watch one Joe Rogan clip and now it starts to show right wing/conspiracy videos).

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