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To solve the housing crisis you have to build up like the Soviets and Chinese have. They housed a lot of people, quickly. It’s really not difficult; just takes

To solve the housing crisis you have to build up like the Soviets and Chinese have. They housed a lot of people, quickly. It’s really not difficult; just takes some brave people to change the zoning laws and rethink some of the building codes combined with financing it.

cpursley 3y ago
But not like the UK and US social housing / projects. They need to be in master planned, well thought out and connected communities.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  I cannot upvote this enough. We ruined today through decades of car centric planning, we have to give the future something better.
  - psychlops 3y ago
    This whole chain is a series of ideas that will never happen.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      These are not the vibes I am looking for. If you don’t have hope, what are you even doing?
      - psychlops 3y ago
        Apologies, I hope our next generation of leaders are master planners.
    - cpursley 3y ago
      The issue might get forced if energy prices hit a threshold, debt bomb explodes, etc.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/13/biden-infrastructure-spending-cities https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/13/biden-infras... ("Biden pledges billions to rebuild cities ‘torn apart’ by highways decades ago")
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Mixed use. And also mixing all types of social, free-market rental and owner occupied. Quality for later two could be better, but it should still be next to each other using same services.
- KaiserPro 3y ago
  > But not like the UK The UK's social housing scheme was/is a stonking success, right up until about 1980. it completely reset the minimum standard of housing from slums to actually decent. It wasn't all a success, skelmersdale and thamesmede sucked balls. The problem with the uk's social housing came as follows: 1) the change from needing a job to have a council house to being a dumping ground for troubled families without support 2) removing the ability of councils to fund new housing 3) overly complex centralised funding of repairs and upkeep 4) selling off housing and then taking the money away that was needed to replace them Thats very different to the "projects"
  - cpursley 3y ago
    I don't know the UK situation in much depth but one of the things I read was how they were disconnected from the rest of the community (socially, services, transport, etc).
    - KaiserPro 3y ago
      indeed, some of it was/is. However in london it was (mostly) slammed in on bombsites/ex industrial places: https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/council-releases-map-of-1500-planned-homes-42344 https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/council-releases-map-of... southwark has the most council estates. the further out boroughs did try and put their estates far out. Places like thamesmede (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamesmead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamesmead) failed because there was literally nothing else around (thats improved significantly, 50 years later)
whynotmaybe 3y ago
Has someone on onion talks said it before "the idea is there, it just needs implementation". https://youtu.be/DkGMY63FF3Q https://youtu.be/DkGMY63FF3Q
davidw 3y ago
You don't even have to do that - a lot of 3/4/5 story style flats (can be owned or rented) that are not concrete soviet blocks would do wonders in most cities. See: western Europe.
- cpursley 3y ago
  Yep, Denmark and the Netherlands especially get this right.
  - davidw 3y ago
    It's pretty standard in most places outside of the odd tower block here and there. That kind of housing goes back at least as far as the Roman insulae, which you can still see in places like Ostia Antica.
Symmetry 3y ago
The Chinese/Soviet style of a tower in a park builds tall, but it doesn't actually tend to give more density than more US style dense areas with 3-5 stories mostly filling a block. With the Chinese approach you get better views, but with the US approach you get more walkable neighborhoods and I'll take the later.
- cpursley 3y ago
  > with the US approach you get more walkable neighborhoods Have you actually ever spent time in a post-Soviet country? Their cities are an order of magnitude more walkable than literally anywhere in the US. And that's ignoring their much better mix of uses (ground floor retail, etc) and access to public spaces (by foot).
  - Symmetry 3y ago
    No I haven't but I'm not trying to draw a distinction between the average post-Soviet neighborhood and the average US neighborhood. I'm trying to draw a distinction between Le Corbusier's vision of urbanism (still better than US suburbs!) and Jane Jacbos's, which in the rare cases where the US builds dense it actually hits decently well.
    - cpursley 3y ago
      I’m unfamiliar with Jane Jacobs, where can I read up more on that?
xyzelement 3y ago
// To solve the housing crisis you have to build up like the Soviets My family lived in a communal apartment[0] for about 30 years in the USSR waiting for a place of our own. Whatever definition of "housing crisis" you are operating with, is heaven on earth compared to the Soviet housing reality. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_apartment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_apartment
- cpursley 3y ago
  Please be honest, the vast majority Russians and other Soviets didn't live in communal apartments for the past 60 years. Not only did they have access to new construction commie blocks (small and ugly, but warm and well connected), well over 50% of them had summer homes (datchas) and many still do today. Anyways, you're missing my point. Which was to solve the post-war housing crisis by building up with prefabs. And it worked - rapidly.

cpursley 3y ago

But not like the UK and US social housing / projects. They need to be in master planned, well thought out and connected communities.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
I cannot upvote this enough. We ruined today through decades of car centric planning, we have to give the future something better.
- psychlops 3y ago
  This whole chain is a series of ideas that will never happen.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    These are not the vibes I am looking for. If you don’t have hope, what are you even doing?
    - psychlops 3y ago
      Apologies, I hope our next generation of leaders are master planners.
  - cpursley 3y ago
    The issue might get forced if energy prices hit a threshold, debt bomb explodes, etc.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/13/biden-infrastructure-spending-cities https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/13/biden-infras... ("Biden pledges billions to rebuild cities ‘torn apart’ by highways decades ago")
Ekaros 3y ago
Mixed use. And also mixing all types of social, free-market rental and owner occupied. Quality for later two could be better, but it should still be next to each other using same services.
KaiserPro 3y ago
> But not like the UK The UK's social housing scheme was/is a stonking success, right up until about 1980. it completely reset the minimum standard of housing from slums to actually decent. It wasn't all a success, skelmersdale and thamesmede sucked balls. The problem with the uk's social housing came as follows: 1) the change from needing a job to have a council house to being a dumping ground for troubled families without support 2) removing the ability of councils to fund new housing 3) overly complex centralised funding of repairs and upkeep 4) selling off housing and then taking the money away that was needed to replace them Thats very different to the "projects"
- cpursley 3y ago
  I don't know the UK situation in much depth but one of the things I read was how they were disconnected from the rest of the community (socially, services, transport, etc).
  - KaiserPro 3y ago
    indeed, some of it was/is. However in london it was (mostly) slammed in on bombsites/ex industrial places: https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/council-releases-map-of-1500-planned-homes-42344 https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/council-releases-map-of... southwark has the most council estates. the further out boroughs did try and put their estates far out. Places like thamesmede (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamesmead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamesmead) failed because there was literally nothing else around (thats improved significantly, 50 years later)

whynotmaybe 3y ago

Has someone on onion talks said it before "the idea is there, it just needs implementation". https://youtu.be/DkGMY63FF3Q https://youtu.be/DkGMY63FF3Q

davidw 3y ago

You don't even have to do that - a lot of 3/4/5 story style flats (can be owned or rented) that are not concrete soviet blocks would do wonders in most cities. See: western Europe.

cpursley 3y ago
Yep, Denmark and the Netherlands especially get this right.
- davidw 3y ago
  It's pretty standard in most places outside of the odd tower block here and there. That kind of housing goes back at least as far as the Roman insulae, which you can still see in places like Ostia Antica.

Symmetry 3y ago

The Chinese/Soviet style of a tower in a park builds tall, but it doesn't actually tend to give more density than more US style dense areas with 3-5 stories mostly filling a block. With the Chinese approach you get better views, but with the US approach you get more walkable neighborhoods and I'll take the later.

cpursley 3y ago
> with the US approach you get more walkable neighborhoods Have you actually ever spent time in a post-Soviet country? Their cities are an order of magnitude more walkable than literally anywhere in the US. And that's ignoring their much better mix of uses (ground floor retail, etc) and access to public spaces (by foot).
- Symmetry 3y ago
  No I haven't but I'm not trying to draw a distinction between the average post-Soviet neighborhood and the average US neighborhood. I'm trying to draw a distinction between Le Corbusier's vision of urbanism (still better than US suburbs!) and Jane Jacbos's, which in the rare cases where the US builds dense it actually hits decently well.
  - cpursley 3y ago
    I’m unfamiliar with Jane Jacobs, where can I read up more on that?

xyzelement 3y ago

// To solve the housing crisis you have to build up like the Soviets My family lived in a communal apartment[0] for about 30 years in the USSR waiting for a place of our own. Whatever definition of "housing crisis" you are operating with, is heaven on earth compared to the Soviet housing reality. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_apartment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_apartment

cpursley 3y ago
Please be honest, the vast majority Russians and other Soviets didn't live in communal apartments for the past 60 years. Not only did they have access to new construction commie blocks (small and ugly, but warm and well connected), well over 50% of them had summer homes (datchas) and many still do today. Anyways, you're missing my point. Which was to solve the post-war housing crisis by building up with prefabs. And it worked - rapidly.