5 ms·

TLDR? WOW -- I just read this: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/26/last-iron-lung-paul-alexander-polio-coronavirus https://www.theguardian.com/soc

TLDR? WOW -- I just read this: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/26/last-iron-lung-paul-alexander-polio-coronavirus https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/26/last-iron-lu...

rootusrootus 3y ago
[flagged]
- johndevor 3y ago
  The vaccine was introduced after polio prevalence was already plummeting.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - autoexec 3y ago
    I would hardly call that "plummeting" considering the baseline https://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/research/online-documents/salk/salk-a.pdf https://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/resear...
  - anon291 3y ago
    I'm sorry... this is ridiculous. I'm not vaccine-heavy (like I don't really think you need a chickenpox vaccine or a rotavirus vaccine if you're healthy or a Hep B vaccine at birth if you're low risk), but the idea of forgoing vaccines for illnesses like polio is just stupid. Too many kids died or were disabled for this. It's just stupid. The injectable vaccine is safe and has been used for decades. There should really be no objection to it. The oral ones are a different story and I wouldn't let my kid anywhere near those (too high a risk of polio)
    - t0bia_s 3y ago
      Cutter incident - The mistake produced 120,000 doses of polio vaccine that contained live polio virus. Of children who received the vaccine, 40,000 developed abortive poliomyelitis (a form of the disease that does not involve the central nervous system), 56 developed paralytic poliomyelitis—and of these, five children died from polio.[2] The exposures led to an epidemic of polio in the families and communities of the affected children, resulting in a further 113 people paralyzed and 5 deaths. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories
      - anon291 3y ago
        I already addressed this concern. I am categorically against live polio vaccines. Thankfully, today, only the oral one is live. There is no longer live injectible vaccine. The inactivated injectible vaccine is very safe. You reference an incident from 1955 when injectible vaccines were similar to oral ones today. Don't take these. Luckily, in 2024, you don't have to. It is irresponsible TODAY to not get vaccinated. None of what I wrote above applies to 1955. You're smarter than this.
        t0bia_s 3y ago
        [flagged]
        ikrenji 3y ago
        so? if they stop vaccinating it WILL come back. FAST. also the ONLY way to eradicate an infectious disease is through vaccination. even then we only manage to do it once with smallpox
        t0bia_s 3y ago
        You ignore hygiene and wealth that rised up significantly over the world during last century. All polio cases today are in countries where it is not common or even possible to wash hands regularly. It wonders me why we are able to give them milion doses of vaccines but there is not same attitude with drinking water?
    - samstave 3y ago
      I'm not anti-vax, though but my daughter actually got chicken pox from the vaccine. It sucked - we had to get her vaccined to fly back east, so we did... flew and it was supposed to be a trip to chicago zoo but she got CP then night we got there and spent a couple days in the hotel bath with calamine. I got the chicken pox twice. Once at 6 months. and at 14y.
- moralestapia 3y ago
  Some vaccines can be good, some vaccines can be bad; why is that so hard to understand?
  - strken 3y ago
    There aren't any vaccines I can think of that made it past clinical trials and were a net negative. There are possibly some cases where they were a net negative for a subgroup of the population or where a batch was contaminated, but I don't think that counts as overall "bad". Either you're using a different definition of bad, or you've got some information I don't have, or you're wrong.
    - moralestapia 3y ago
      >that made it past clinical trials What do you mean by this? Perhaps, that some of them are bad and thus shouldn't be used by the general population?
      - oefnak 3y ago
        No, he meant that we don't use vaccines that are bad.
        moralestapia 3y ago
        >some of them are bad and thus shouldn't be used by the general population >No, he meant that we don't use vaccines that are bad. By "he", you mean me?
        maxcoder4 3y ago
        I don't understand your point. Vaccines that don't make it past clinical trails are not used. So there are no vaccines that were used that were net negative bad. Does it make it clear?
      - strken 3y ago
        What I meant was that the general population can't use those vaccines anyway, unless they do the synthesis on their own or get into a clinical trial, so it's disingenuous to talk about them in the context of public safety. Making a claim about the safety of pre-approval vaccines is misleading because it's claiming one uncontroversial true thing ("some vaccines in development are found to be net negative in trials and do not progress further") that sounds superficially similar to a scary untrue thing ("getting vaccinated by your doctor with an approved vaccine may be net negative across the population") and hoping everyone else will confuse the two. In this case "some vaccines are bad" was clearly intended to be an ambiguous statement, otherwise it would have been more detailed about which exact vaccines were bad.

TLDR? WOW -- I just read this: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/26/last-iron-lung-paul-alexander-polio-coronavirus https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/26/last-iron-lu...

rootusrootus 3y ago

[flagged]

johndevor 3y ago
The vaccine was introduced after polio prevalence was already plummeting.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- autoexec 3y ago
  I would hardly call that "plummeting" considering the baseline https://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/research/online-documents/salk/salk-a.pdf https://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/resear...
- anon291 3y ago
  I'm sorry... this is ridiculous. I'm not vaccine-heavy (like I don't really think you need a chickenpox vaccine or a rotavirus vaccine if you're healthy or a Hep B vaccine at birth if you're low risk), but the idea of forgoing vaccines for illnesses like polio is just stupid. Too many kids died or were disabled for this. It's just stupid. The injectable vaccine is safe and has been used for decades. There should really be no objection to it. The oral ones are a different story and I wouldn't let my kid anywhere near those (too high a risk of polio)
  - t0bia_s 3y ago
    Cutter incident - The mistake produced 120,000 doses of polio vaccine that contained live polio virus. Of children who received the vaccine, 40,000 developed abortive poliomyelitis (a form of the disease that does not involve the central nervous system), 56 developed paralytic poliomyelitis—and of these, five children died from polio.[2] The exposures led to an epidemic of polio in the families and communities of the affected children, resulting in a further 113 people paralyzed and 5 deaths. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories
    - anon291 3y ago
      I already addressed this concern. I am categorically against live polio vaccines. Thankfully, today, only the oral one is live. There is no longer live injectible vaccine. The inactivated injectible vaccine is very safe. You reference an incident from 1955 when injectible vaccines were similar to oral ones today. Don't take these. Luckily, in 2024, you don't have to. It is irresponsible TODAY to not get vaccinated. None of what I wrote above applies to 1955. You're smarter than this.
      - t0bia_s 3y ago
        [flagged]
        ikrenji 3y ago
        so? if they stop vaccinating it WILL come back. FAST. also the ONLY way to eradicate an infectious disease is through vaccination. even then we only manage to do it once with smallpox
        t0bia_s 3y ago
        You ignore hygiene and wealth that rised up significantly over the world during last century. All polio cases today are in countries where it is not common or even possible to wash hands regularly. It wonders me why we are able to give them milion doses of vaccines but there is not same attitude with drinking water?
  - samstave 3y ago
    I'm not anti-vax, though but my daughter actually got chicken pox from the vaccine. It sucked - we had to get her vaccined to fly back east, so we did... flew and it was supposed to be a trip to chicago zoo but she got CP then night we got there and spent a couple days in the hotel bath with calamine. I got the chicken pox twice. Once at 6 months. and at 14y.
moralestapia 3y ago
Some vaccines can be good, some vaccines can be bad; why is that so hard to understand?
- strken 3y ago
  There aren't any vaccines I can think of that made it past clinical trials and were a net negative. There are possibly some cases where they were a net negative for a subgroup of the population or where a batch was contaminated, but I don't think that counts as overall "bad". Either you're using a different definition of bad, or you've got some information I don't have, or you're wrong.
  - moralestapia 3y ago
    >that made it past clinical trials What do you mean by this? Perhaps, that some of them are bad and thus shouldn't be used by the general population?
    - oefnak 3y ago
      No, he meant that we don't use vaccines that are bad.
      - moralestapia 3y ago
        >some of them are bad and thus shouldn't be used by the general population >No, he meant that we don't use vaccines that are bad. By "he", you mean me?
        maxcoder4 3y ago
        I don't understand your point. Vaccines that don't make it past clinical trails are not used. So there are no vaccines that were used that were net negative bad. Does it make it clear?
    - strken 3y ago
      What I meant was that the general population can't use those vaccines anyway, unless they do the synthesis on their own or get into a clinical trial, so it's disingenuous to talk about them in the context of public safety. Making a claim about the safety of pre-approval vaccines is misleading because it's claiming one uncontroversial true thing ("some vaccines in development are found to be net negative in trials and do not progress further") that sounds superficially similar to a scary untrue thing ("getting vaccinated by your doctor with an approved vaccine may be net negative across the population") and hoping everyone else will confuse the two. In this case "some vaccines are bad" was clearly intended to be an ambiguous statement, otherwise it would have been more detailed about which exact vaccines were bad.