3 ms·

For people who are religious, how do you factor in an external entity (omnipotent, benevolent in nature, cares about guiding humanity's karma, etc.) weighting t

For people who are religious, how do you factor in an external entity (omnipotent, benevolent in nature, cares about guiding humanity's karma, etc.) weighting the odds of certain events? This is something I've been thinking deeply about for a while now. Curious to hear other people's thoughts.

UncleOxidant 3y ago
I mean there are a huge number of viewpoints about this kind of thing even within a single religion like, for example Christianity. The long running divide between Calvinists and Armenians, for example. Calvinists say we don't have free will that God is pulling all the strings, Armenians say that God doesn't go against human free will. I have to say I'm more on the Armenian side - God isn't orchestrating events so much, we humans are given a large amount of latitude. ... but I guess I'm not following how this question is related to the article? They're not claiming to use some kind of supernatural means to predict the future.
- lawrenceyan 3y ago
  If you really wanted to accurately predict the future, wouldn't you need to take into account the omnipotent external entity's opinion on things?
  - coldtea 3y ago
    Opinion, no. Interventions yes. And even the latter only if you mainly wanted to predict events where said intervention will occur and be a major factor (e.g. predicting an earthquake doesn't really need to take into account that someone will be spared from dying there by divine intervention).
- coldtea 3y ago
  Just Armenians? Don't Catholic and Eastern Orthodox in general believe the same? (Besides, iirc, Armenians are part of the wider Eastern Orthodox faith).
  - UncleOxidant 3y ago
    Yeah, I misspelled it. Arminianism named for Arminius. Yes, Catholics and Orthodox also fall into that category. It has nothing to do with any ethnic or geographic group.
- Vecr 3y ago
  > but I guess I'm not following how this question is related to the article? They're not claiming to use some kind of supernatural means to predict the future. Probably because they don't think it exists.
bee_rider 3y ago
Doesn’t the Abrahamic god specifically want to be impossible to detect? If you can get a god to influence the dice, you can easily come up with an experiment where you detect that it exists.
- coldtea 3y ago
  >Doesn’t the Abrahamic god specifically want to be impossible to detect? No. Where does this idea come from? And certainly not in all denominations, including not in some major ones. In fact (assuming you go but their stories) He often makes his present very clear and detectable.
  - rswail 3y ago
    “My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the LORD. “And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine. For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      That's not about being "impossible to detect". That is about being superior and incomprehensible.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    If there were some objective way to detect a god, somebody would describe it, and that would quickly become the only religion. Since most gods are very powerful, we can only suppose they are hiding on purpose. Something appears to have changed after all the stories were written down.

UncleOxidant 3y ago

I mean there are a huge number of viewpoints about this kind of thing even within a single religion like, for example Christianity. The long running divide between Calvinists and Armenians, for example. Calvinists say we don't have free will that God is pulling all the strings, Armenians say that God doesn't go against human free will. I have to say I'm more on the Armenian side - God isn't orchestrating events so much, we humans are given a large amount of latitude. ... but I guess I'm not following how this question is related to the article? They're not claiming to use some kind of supernatural means to predict the future.

lawrenceyan 3y ago
If you really wanted to accurately predict the future, wouldn't you need to take into account the omnipotent external entity's opinion on things?
- coldtea 3y ago
  Opinion, no. Interventions yes. And even the latter only if you mainly wanted to predict events where said intervention will occur and be a major factor (e.g. predicting an earthquake doesn't really need to take into account that someone will be spared from dying there by divine intervention).
coldtea 3y ago
Just Armenians? Don't Catholic and Eastern Orthodox in general believe the same? (Besides, iirc, Armenians are part of the wider Eastern Orthodox faith).
- UncleOxidant 3y ago
  Yeah, I misspelled it. Arminianism named for Arminius. Yes, Catholics and Orthodox also fall into that category. It has nothing to do with any ethnic or geographic group.
Vecr 3y ago
> but I guess I'm not following how this question is related to the article? They're not claiming to use some kind of supernatural means to predict the future. Probably because they don't think it exists.

bee_rider 3y ago

Doesn’t the Abrahamic god specifically want to be impossible to detect? If you can get a god to influence the dice, you can easily come up with an experiment where you detect that it exists.

coldtea 3y ago
>Doesn’t the Abrahamic god specifically want to be impossible to detect? No. Where does this idea come from? And certainly not in all denominations, including not in some major ones. In fact (assuming you go but their stories) He often makes his present very clear and detectable.
- rswail 3y ago
  “My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the LORD. “And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine. For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    That's not about being "impossible to detect". That is about being superior and incomprehensible.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  If there were some objective way to detect a god, somebody would describe it, and that would quickly become the only religion. Since most gods are very powerful, we can only suppose they are hiding on purpose. Something appears to have changed after all the stories were written down.