40 ms·

Is there anything fundamentally wrong with Chinese cars as opposed to Western cars? I mean, non-western brands such as Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Tata

by 2143 3y ago

Is there anything fundamentally wrong with Chinese cars as opposed to Western cars? I mean, non-western brands such as Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Tata, Mahindra, Proton etc exist, so what's the big deal with Chinese cars? And by the way, I sincerely hope this new subscription-heavy Audi A3 flops.

brikym 3y ago
A few decades ago the Japanese were learning to make cars and there were some quality problems until they figured it out. I think China has gone through a similar thing.
qwerty456127 3y ago
Chinese cars apparently still lack good reputation in terms of durability, repairability or reliability. As far as I know they also are full of needles software stuff prone to fail and to spy on you because the Asians are more prone to welcome digital "progress" and surveillance in their lives. For the westerners mindless consumerism is just a norm so more of them can take it critical, for the Asians who got out of poverty way later it is heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it. Japanese Nissan is infamous for the craziest user privacy policy ever and I doubt any Chinese carmaker is better (I would imagine they have no privacy policy at all, just take whatever data imaginable and stream it in plain-text).
- 2143 3y ago
  > still lack good reputation in terms of durability, repairability or reliability Are Western cars particularly better in these areas? I have a Mercedes E class (W212) bought new several years ago which I've always serviced at Mercedes authorized workshop. It's a money pit. Reliability — something or the other snaps every other month these days. Repairability — even simple things require taking apart the whole car. Durability — you mean the strength of the body? Yeah that seems good, actually. And I know mine is not a one-off case. Maybe the Chinese cars might actually get these things right. We don't know yet. The European cars' redeemable aspect is that they drive well. > As far as I know they also are full of needles software stuff prone to fail Go sit in a new Mercedes BMW, or even Volkswagen and enjoy all those screens. Decide for yourself if they're needed or not. > for the Asians it heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it Fascinating how you caricatured away billions of people with a simple flippant thoughtless remark.
  - qwerty456127 3y ago
    > Fascinating how you caricatured away billions of people with a simple flippant thoughtless remark. I believe caricatures are among the most precious things a human can produce, self-caricaturing even being abong the highest merits. This one is based primarimy on self-reflection, as most of them are, consciously or not.
- petre 3y ago
  I'm sure it's mostly FUD. I had an Audi A1. Back to Japanese cars now. Never getting an Audi again. Instead of happily working like a car is supposed to, something always broke, it was difficult and expensive to service. The mechanic told me: "this type of engine comes rattling from the factory". While it worked, it worked great, but then an oil indicator would appear, a taillight would randomly flash. Also, the newer Q5 diesels eat oil like there's no tomorrow, you have to fill a liter every 1000 kms, along with diesel and adblue. That's three automotive fluids that you need to fill in regularly. I just hope they get banned sooner rather than later. We won't buy Nissans though. They're just more expensive and annoying Renaults. Also if one wants a cheaper utilitarian vehicle, French cars have gotten better, to the point it makes no sense to buy a more expensive German brand. I used to dismiss Renault but after renting a Clio and seeing how well it handles and how much it costs, I've changed my mind. The soundproofing was crap though, but I couldn't care less since the rest of the car was very erogomonic, had useful sat nav, rear camera, was not underpowered even with the low capacity entry level engine and it handled very well both in the city and on the highway. Also Alfa Romeos. What's even the point of buying a BMW as long as Alfa exists? They basically have 3 models, as opposed to 10+? A sports sedan and two SUVs. It's got the looks and the horsepower, all leather inside. It's just as reliable if not even more mostly because BMW is no longer a hallmark of reliability, quite the opposite. If that's not enough, there's always Maserati. And if one wants an EV then buy a Tesla instead. The others are playing catch up anyway, with no longer a chance in sight to actually rival Tesla or even the more upmarket Chinese manufactureres like BYD or Nio.
  - muziq 3y ago
    And I’m an Audi convert after 13 years of an A7 from new and put 120k miles on it.. Best car I’ve ever owned (40 years, 17 cars).. Yearly service, oil change each time.. Transmission and diff. Oils at 50k & 100k, and all that’s needed doing beyond that is the stupid Aluminium brake dust shields, and exhaust heat shields that just seemingly dissolve when exposed to, anything.. Oh, and the slidey outey screen failed due to the power cable, but cost £50 to fix.. Cheapest maintenance car I have ever owned..
- pauby 3y ago
  > the Asians who got out of poverty way later it is heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it. There are so many things wrong with this statement Im not sure where to start.
  - qwerty456127 3y ago
    I know. I just had no idea how to express the idea better. It would take an entire essay and a lot of research to express the same correctly which I have no time to do so I put it rough expecting the audience to get the clue and spit out the bitter aftertaste. I'm sorry if anybody got sincerely upset by reading this.
PlunderBunny 3y ago
I don't think there's any problem with the cars themselves (my parents just bought a BYD Dolphin, and my partner and I are about to buy a LDV eDeliver9), but I think the critical question is - can you get qualified servicing, and spare parts when something goes wrong?
dv_dt 3y ago
The language directed at Chinese cars now sounds a lot like that directed at Japanese import cars early on.
hilux 3y ago
Those last three brands ... are they sold in the US? Historically, Chinese cars have performed poorly on crash test. Google: chinese car safety zero star Have they improved, and will they continue to improve? Of course.
ecoquant 3y ago
I think in the US it is the same issue as Tata. I might buy a Tata Altroz for $7500 if I could go to a Tata dealer and test drive one but Tata doesn't even sell to the US from my understanding. So you can't test drive one, can't get parts for repairs, can't buy one and I am not even 100% sure if you did get one you would be able to get it legally on the road in the US. People had the same perceptions of Kia 20 years ago in the US. The major difference though is that you could actually buy a road legal Kia from a Kia dealer.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- 2143 3y ago
  Yep. Buy what's available. I wasn't commenting from a US perspective. Whenever a car company sets up shop in a new market (country) it's initially going to be difficult. Particular when it's a large country like USA, although conversely the manufacturer gets access to a large market. Anyway, I don't have much knowledge regarding these things. And not being in the US doesn't imply it's a bad car. Manufacturers choose to enter or not enter certain markets. Business decisions. For example I believe the new Toyota Land Cruiser isn't sold in the US. Nor is any model from Skoda. Doesn't mean they're objectively bad cars.
- swozey 3y ago
  I'm going to reply here about another comment you made elsewhere, because you're not only deadvoted - people dislike your comments so often that you're shadowbanned here and nobody can read or reply to most of them, but also because it's an absolutely hilariously stupid comment and it deserves to be called out. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=swozey#39709282 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=swozey#39709282 I'll go line by line: > You simply over value your internet presence. You have no internet presence. You're literally shadowbanned/deadnamed on hackernews and not a single person with default HN settings can read your comments. You provide nothing whatsoever to hn. Thats your internet presence here. You're a random, rude green name with [dead] next to it posting like you're galaxy brain v2. In what world are you remotely the person to tell someone that THEIR internet presence, when you can't even maintain civility enough to not be banned, is less important than they believe? > Everyone is basically doing the same thing so it has almost no value. I'm a staff level SRE who works on super performant hpc autoscaling, distributed systems, cluster federations for cdns, massive media farms (think pixar rendering farms) and POPs. Am I a nuclear assassin? No. Do I hire people who do my literal job and know exactly how rare or not rare my skillset is? Yeah, I do. Are you logged into my Indeed and seeing the applications and interviews I'm getting? You're not, right? Sorry you suck. Or your skills suck, or whatever it is that makes you just sound like the miserable low-skill person who wrote your comment. You understand this is HN right? This isn't facebook? We're actual engineers who post our projects and work with one another. The first 4 people who wrote Kubernetes didn't go to Facebook and post it for your cat to see. They came to HN to post it for the other engineers who would build/use the project could be made aware of it. > I think you also highly underestimate the possible negative value of companies finding your internet presence and not liking what they find. I have never read a Linkedin profile in my life that wasn't a total waste of my time because they are all exactly the same. Everyone believes they have something unique and helping them stand out when in reality it is probably doing exactly the opposite. I'm literally the person who is hiring the people in this topic. This is an absolutely ludicrous and just bluntly stupid statement you've made here. Something is wrong with your personality. You are hilariously rude and completely unaware of how ridiculous you sound. Work on integrating into other cultures better. When I moved from the USA to Germany I had to really give people a lot of leeway because they tend to come off as extremely bitter and rude. Now, when I googled "ecoquant" I was hoping to find your github and get a good laugh, but I assume because of how poorly you portray yourself online you don't want your presence to be easily tracked. Because yeah, if I saw your presence online I'd probably not hire you. Kind of like someone who is projecting horrible things onto other people being the actual one to perpetrate those crimes. Interesting.

by 2143 3y ago

brikym 3y ago

A few decades ago the Japanese were learning to make cars and there were some quality problems until they figured it out. I think China has gone through a similar thing.

qwerty456127 3y ago

Chinese cars apparently still lack good reputation in terms of durability, repairability or reliability. As far as I know they also are full of needles software stuff prone to fail and to spy on you because the Asians are more prone to welcome digital "progress" and surveillance in their lives. For the westerners mindless consumerism is just a norm so more of them can take it critical, for the Asians who got out of poverty way later it is heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it. Japanese Nissan is infamous for the craziest user privacy policy ever and I doubt any Chinese carmaker is better (I would imagine they have no privacy policy at all, just take whatever data imaginable and stream it in plain-text).

2143 3y ago
> still lack good reputation in terms of durability, repairability or reliability Are Western cars particularly better in these areas? I have a Mercedes E class (W212) bought new several years ago which I've always serviced at Mercedes authorized workshop. It's a money pit. Reliability — something or the other snaps every other month these days. Repairability — even simple things require taking apart the whole car. Durability — you mean the strength of the body? Yeah that seems good, actually. And I know mine is not a one-off case. Maybe the Chinese cars might actually get these things right. We don't know yet. The European cars' redeemable aspect is that they drive well. > As far as I know they also are full of needles software stuff prone to fail Go sit in a new Mercedes BMW, or even Volkswagen and enjoy all those screens. Decide for yourself if they're needed or not. > for the Asians it heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it Fascinating how you caricatured away billions of people with a simple flippant thoughtless remark.
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  > Fascinating how you caricatured away billions of people with a simple flippant thoughtless remark. I believe caricatures are among the most precious things a human can produce, self-caricaturing even being abong the highest merits. This one is based primarimy on self-reflection, as most of them are, consciously or not.
petre 3y ago
I'm sure it's mostly FUD. I had an Audi A1. Back to Japanese cars now. Never getting an Audi again. Instead of happily working like a car is supposed to, something always broke, it was difficult and expensive to service. The mechanic told me: "this type of engine comes rattling from the factory". While it worked, it worked great, but then an oil indicator would appear, a taillight would randomly flash. Also, the newer Q5 diesels eat oil like there's no tomorrow, you have to fill a liter every 1000 kms, along with diesel and adblue. That's three automotive fluids that you need to fill in regularly. I just hope they get banned sooner rather than later. We won't buy Nissans though. They're just more expensive and annoying Renaults. Also if one wants a cheaper utilitarian vehicle, French cars have gotten better, to the point it makes no sense to buy a more expensive German brand. I used to dismiss Renault but after renting a Clio and seeing how well it handles and how much it costs, I've changed my mind. The soundproofing was crap though, but I couldn't care less since the rest of the car was very erogomonic, had useful sat nav, rear camera, was not underpowered even with the low capacity entry level engine and it handled very well both in the city and on the highway. Also Alfa Romeos. What's even the point of buying a BMW as long as Alfa exists? They basically have 3 models, as opposed to 10+? A sports sedan and two SUVs. It's got the looks and the horsepower, all leather inside. It's just as reliable if not even more mostly because BMW is no longer a hallmark of reliability, quite the opposite. If that's not enough, there's always Maserati. And if one wants an EV then buy a Tesla instead. The others are playing catch up anyway, with no longer a chance in sight to actually rival Tesla or even the more upmarket Chinese manufactureres like BYD or Nio.
- muziq 3y ago
  And I’m an Audi convert after 13 years of an A7 from new and put 120k miles on it.. Best car I’ve ever owned (40 years, 17 cars).. Yearly service, oil change each time.. Transmission and diff. Oils at 50k & 100k, and all that’s needed doing beyond that is the stupid Aluminium brake dust shields, and exhaust heat shields that just seemingly dissolve when exposed to, anything.. Oh, and the slidey outey screen failed due to the power cable, but cost £50 to fix.. Cheapest maintenance car I have ever owned..
pauby 3y ago
> the Asians who got out of poverty way later it is heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it. There are so many things wrong with this statement Im not sure where to start.
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  I know. I just had no idea how to express the idea better. It would take an entire essay and a lot of research to express the same correctly which I have no time to do so I put it rough expecting the audience to get the clue and spit out the bitter aftertaste. I'm sorry if anybody got sincerely upset by reading this.

PlunderBunny 3y ago

I don't think there's any problem with the cars themselves (my parents just bought a BYD Dolphin, and my partner and I are about to buy a LDV eDeliver9), but I think the critical question is - can you get qualified servicing, and spare parts when something goes wrong?

dv_dt 3y ago

The language directed at Chinese cars now sounds a lot like that directed at Japanese import cars early on.

hilux 3y ago

Those last three brands ... are they sold in the US? Historically, Chinese cars have performed poorly on crash test. Google: chinese car safety zero star Have they improved, and will they continue to improve? Of course.

ecoquant 3y ago

I think in the US it is the same issue as Tata. I might buy a Tata Altroz for $7500 if I could go to a Tata dealer and test drive one but Tata doesn't even sell to the US from my understanding. So you can't test drive one, can't get parts for repairs, can't buy one and I am not even 100% sure if you did get one you would be able to get it legally on the road in the US. People had the same perceptions of Kia 20 years ago in the US. The major difference though is that you could actually buy a road legal Kia from a Kia dealer.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
2143 3y ago
Yep. Buy what's available. I wasn't commenting from a US perspective. Whenever a car company sets up shop in a new market (country) it's initially going to be difficult. Particular when it's a large country like USA, although conversely the manufacturer gets access to a large market. Anyway, I don't have much knowledge regarding these things. And not being in the US doesn't imply it's a bad car. Manufacturers choose to enter or not enter certain markets. Business decisions. For example I believe the new Toyota Land Cruiser isn't sold in the US. Nor is any model from Skoda. Doesn't mean they're objectively bad cars.
swozey 3y ago
I'm going to reply here about another comment you made elsewhere, because you're not only deadvoted - people dislike your comments so often that you're shadowbanned here and nobody can read or reply to most of them, but also because it's an absolutely hilariously stupid comment and it deserves to be called out. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=swozey#39709282 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=swozey#39709282 I'll go line by line: > You simply over value your internet presence. You have no internet presence. You're literally shadowbanned/deadnamed on hackernews and not a single person with default HN settings can read your comments. You provide nothing whatsoever to hn. Thats your internet presence here. You're a random, rude green name with [dead] next to it posting like you're galaxy brain v2. In what world are you remotely the person to tell someone that THEIR internet presence, when you can't even maintain civility enough to not be banned, is less important than they believe? > Everyone is basically doing the same thing so it has almost no value. I'm a staff level SRE who works on super performant hpc autoscaling, distributed systems, cluster federations for cdns, massive media farms (think pixar rendering farms) and POPs. Am I a nuclear assassin? No. Do I hire people who do my literal job and know exactly how rare or not rare my skillset is? Yeah, I do. Are you logged into my Indeed and seeing the applications and interviews I'm getting? You're not, right? Sorry you suck. Or your skills suck, or whatever it is that makes you just sound like the miserable low-skill person who wrote your comment. You understand this is HN right? This isn't facebook? We're actual engineers who post our projects and work with one another. The first 4 people who wrote Kubernetes didn't go to Facebook and post it for your cat to see. They came to HN to post it for the other engineers who would build/use the project could be made aware of it. > I think you also highly underestimate the possible negative value of companies finding your internet presence and not liking what they find. I have never read a Linkedin profile in my life that wasn't a total waste of my time because they are all exactly the same. Everyone believes they have something unique and helping them stand out when in reality it is probably doing exactly the opposite. I'm literally the person who is hiring the people in this topic. This is an absolutely ludicrous and just bluntly stupid statement you've made here. Something is wrong with your personality. You are hilariously rude and completely unaware of how ridiculous you sound. Work on integrating into other cultures better. When I moved from the USA to Germany I had to really give people a lot of leeway because they tend to come off as extremely bitter and rude. Now, when I googled "ecoquant" I was hoping to find your github and get a good laugh, but I assume because of how poorly you portray yourself online you don't want your presence to be easily tracked. Because yeah, if I saw your presence online I'd probably not hire you. Kind of like someone who is projecting horrible things onto other people being the actual one to perpetrate those crimes. Interesting.