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It really makes me sick to my stomach that so many people spend the time and resources on "figuring out" aging and how to stop it. Humanity's #1 problem is over

It really makes me sick to my stomach that so many people spend the time and resources on "figuring out" aging and how to stop it. Humanity's #1 problem is overpopulation. So let's...make everyone...live longer?? We don't need to stop or slow down aging. We need to accept the fact that everything that's alive eventually dies. "When" is arbitrary (with the exception of people under 30 dying). Prolonging the inevitable is a waste of resources, and an enormous burden on society. All these horrible diseases we get when we get older are a product of the fact that our bodies exist for so long. Normally, we'd just die, but modern medicine keeps the body alive so the mind can rot instead. But at least you're alive!!! Also, if people are retiring at 65 and living to be 120, then everyone who is actually productive has to support all these bags of living organic tissue hooked up to machines for another 60 years. For what purpose? You're born. You grow up. You have children. You retire. Then you die, and you make room for everyone else. This is one thing we don't have to sit around questioning. Nobody deserves to live forever. This whole "I have to live longer!!" ego trip is sickening.

kwk 14y ago
What's sickening is the way you devalue life by thinking you're helpless to sustain it. Life is just another phenomenon subtended by physical law. We, as intelligent creatures, have the tools necessary to use those laws to our advantage. If you're not willing to use those tools, that's you're prerogative, but don't look down on those of us who would like to make the most of our time on this earth.
- orthecreedence 14y ago
  What's sickening is that you think sustaining life is valuing life. On an individual/egotistical level, perhaps. On a global level, not at all. If I die, life goes on. If you die, life ends. See the difference? "Make the most our time" and live indefinitely are opposite concepts. Making the most of the time you're given is an honorable goal. Extending life for unknown reasons besides "living longer" doesn't make logical sense, and is a large waste of resources for people who are actually productive. Let's say you're 80. Should you spend $100K to live another 10 years or would you rather your grandchildren go to college? Pick one. Extending your life is devaluing everybody else's life. There's plenty of life out in the world that benefits when someone dies, either through consumption of raw material or reappropriation of resources. Dying is not devaluing life, it's celebrating it by returning what's given to you for others to use.
  - anthonyb 14y ago
    > Should you spend $100K to live another 10 years or would you rather your grandchildren go to college? I'll take "false dichotomies" for $200, Bob. Or, to put it less facetiously, how much money do you think you could make with 10 years of healthy lifespan? And how much value do you think you would add to society in that time? Life is not a zero sum game.
roryokane 14y ago
That's an interesting view, but I'm wondering about your response to some apparent consequences of that view. Would you say that you think society should stop using as much life-prolonging medicine as it currently does, so that people die earlier? That would help with overpopulation, and it's the corollary to your view that society shouldn't make new life-prolonging medicines. Or do you think the current medicines are fine, but we shouldn't make any more? If so, then what makes the current level of medicine so special and desirable, compared to medicine a little stronger or weaker? Aren't you on your own "ego trip" by letting yourself keep living? After all, aren't you part of the problem of overpopulation? Shouldn't you kill yourself, and make the earth that much better? Or is your view that you living is a necessary sacrifice, because you can hopefully convince many people to have less children or kill themselves, and it will be worth it overall? Or would you say that people who have already been born should keep living, but people who have not been born yet should be prevented from living, by encouraging people to have fewer children? If so, what's so special about the people who are already living compared to the people not yet living?
- orthecreedence 14y ago
  You bring up some excellent and thoughtful points. I'll try to respond to most of them. I think that resources spent in the goal of prolonging life are wasted resources. For instance, if you run a country that has two years of usable oil left, do you spend all of your time and resources searching for more oil, knowing full-well that it will run out again, or do you devote your resources to finding another source of energy? I believe that spending time and resources prolonging human life is time that could be spent fixing other problems we have. Cancer comes to mind. You're basically asking me what's the point of life. My answer would have to be two-fold (although it's probably more of a spectrum). From a biological standpoint, it's to reproduce and spread my DNA. From a personal standpoint, my goal in life is to be happy without harming others. A somewhat selfish goal, yes, but one I think I share with many other people. Killing myself would be a drop in the bucket as far as humanity is concerned, and if stopping overpopulation were my ultimate goal, I would do a lot better by using the life I was given to change the world thusly by convincing people to have less children. I don't believe new life shouldn't be created, but rather life would a lot better for everybody if there were an equilibrium between production and consumption. As far as medicine is concerned, I think it has already gone too far. My grandfather is/was a great example. He had an aneurysm in his late 60s. He was rushed to the hospital and "saved," but over the course of 6 years, slowly degraded into a bag of mush. He would have moments of lucidity where he knew he was completely demented and understood the gravity of the fact that he was losing his mind, but most of the time he was a vegetable. His last years were spent in confusing agony. If you asked me, he really died the day he had his aneurysm. I know of many others that have shared this same fate. Should we throw away what medical science has done in the last 100 years? No, I don't think so. Some people are just destined to be vegetables before they die. My point is that this world is getting smaller and smaller. We're starting to realize that our resources are limited. It is in humanity's best interest to not spend resources prolonging life, but instead use those resources for making life better for the ones who are alive.
VMG 14y ago
Will you kill yourself soon? (I don't ask this in a offensive way) > You have children Doesn't seem like a good idea if you claim that overpopulation is an issue

kwk 14y ago

What's sickening is the way you devalue life by thinking you're helpless to sustain it. Life is just another phenomenon subtended by physical law. We, as intelligent creatures, have the tools necessary to use those laws to our advantage. If you're not willing to use those tools, that's you're prerogative, but don't look down on those of us who would like to make the most of our time on this earth.

orthecreedence 14y ago
What's sickening is that you think sustaining life is valuing life. On an individual/egotistical level, perhaps. On a global level, not at all. If I die, life goes on. If you die, life ends. See the difference? "Make the most our time" and live indefinitely are opposite concepts. Making the most of the time you're given is an honorable goal. Extending life for unknown reasons besides "living longer" doesn't make logical sense, and is a large waste of resources for people who are actually productive. Let's say you're 80. Should you spend $100K to live another 10 years or would you rather your grandchildren go to college? Pick one. Extending your life is devaluing everybody else's life. There's plenty of life out in the world that benefits when someone dies, either through consumption of raw material or reappropriation of resources. Dying is not devaluing life, it's celebrating it by returning what's given to you for others to use.
- anthonyb 14y ago
  > Should you spend $100K to live another 10 years or would you rather your grandchildren go to college? I'll take "false dichotomies" for $200, Bob. Or, to put it less facetiously, how much money do you think you could make with 10 years of healthy lifespan? And how much value do you think you would add to society in that time? Life is not a zero sum game.

roryokane 14y ago

That's an interesting view, but I'm wondering about your response to some apparent consequences of that view. Would you say that you think society should stop using as much life-prolonging medicine as it currently does, so that people die earlier? That would help with overpopulation, and it's the corollary to your view that society shouldn't make new life-prolonging medicines. Or do you think the current medicines are fine, but we shouldn't make any more? If so, then what makes the current level of medicine so special and desirable, compared to medicine a little stronger or weaker? Aren't you on your own "ego trip" by letting yourself keep living? After all, aren't you part of the problem of overpopulation? Shouldn't you kill yourself, and make the earth that much better? Or is your view that you living is a necessary sacrifice, because you can hopefully convince many people to have less children or kill themselves, and it will be worth it overall? Or would you say that people who have already been born should keep living, but people who have not been born yet should be prevented from living, by encouraging people to have fewer children? If so, what's so special about the people who are already living compared to the people not yet living?

orthecreedence 14y ago
You bring up some excellent and thoughtful points. I'll try to respond to most of them. I think that resources spent in the goal of prolonging life are wasted resources. For instance, if you run a country that has two years of usable oil left, do you spend all of your time and resources searching for more oil, knowing full-well that it will run out again, or do you devote your resources to finding another source of energy? I believe that spending time and resources prolonging human life is time that could be spent fixing other problems we have. Cancer comes to mind. You're basically asking me what's the point of life. My answer would have to be two-fold (although it's probably more of a spectrum). From a biological standpoint, it's to reproduce and spread my DNA. From a personal standpoint, my goal in life is to be happy without harming others. A somewhat selfish goal, yes, but one I think I share with many other people. Killing myself would be a drop in the bucket as far as humanity is concerned, and if stopping overpopulation were my ultimate goal, I would do a lot better by using the life I was given to change the world thusly by convincing people to have less children. I don't believe new life shouldn't be created, but rather life would a lot better for everybody if there were an equilibrium between production and consumption. As far as medicine is concerned, I think it has already gone too far. My grandfather is/was a great example. He had an aneurysm in his late 60s. He was rushed to the hospital and "saved," but over the course of 6 years, slowly degraded into a bag of mush. He would have moments of lucidity where he knew he was completely demented and understood the gravity of the fact that he was losing his mind, but most of the time he was a vegetable. His last years were spent in confusing agony. If you asked me, he really died the day he had his aneurysm. I know of many others that have shared this same fate. Should we throw away what medical science has done in the last 100 years? No, I don't think so. Some people are just destined to be vegetables before they die. My point is that this world is getting smaller and smaller. We're starting to realize that our resources are limited. It is in humanity's best interest to not spend resources prolonging life, but instead use those resources for making life better for the ones who are alive.

VMG 14y ago

Will you kill yourself soon? (I don't ask this in a offensive way) > You have children Doesn't seem like a good idea if you claim that overpopulation is an issue