6 ms·

The Chinese carmakers will obliterate the western ones, it’s insane how these companies are trying so hard to destroy any possible goodwill people might have.

deleted 3y ago
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andyst 3y ago
this is what happens when businesses are led by mbas and accountants, I'm sure the numbers look fantastic
- cjbgkagh 3y ago
  It's financialization vs industrialization and those decisions are made at the nation state level; "As long as the music is playing, you've got to get up and dance" - Charles Prince.
- 2four2 3y ago
  Short term gains for long term pains. I hope customers steer clear of this behavior to discourage it. I'm personally fatigued by everything being a subscription.
2143 3y ago
Is there anything fundamentally wrong with Chinese cars as opposed to Western cars? I mean, non-western brands such as Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Tata, Mahindra, Proton etc exist, so what's the big deal with Chinese cars? And by the way, I sincerely hope this new subscription-heavy Audi A3 flops.
- brikym 3y ago
  A few decades ago the Japanese were learning to make cars and there were some quality problems until they figured it out. I think China has gone through a similar thing.
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  Chinese cars apparently still lack good reputation in terms of durability, repairability or reliability. As far as I know they also are full of needles software stuff prone to fail and to spy on you because the Asians are more prone to welcome digital "progress" and surveillance in their lives. For the westerners mindless consumerism is just a norm so more of them can take it critical, for the Asians who got out of poverty way later it is heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it. Japanese Nissan is infamous for the craziest user privacy policy ever and I doubt any Chinese carmaker is better (I would imagine they have no privacy policy at all, just take whatever data imaginable and stream it in plain-text).
  - 2143 3y ago
    > still lack good reputation in terms of durability, repairability or reliability Are Western cars particularly better in these areas? I have a Mercedes E class (W212) bought new several years ago which I've always serviced at Mercedes authorized workshop. It's a money pit. Reliability — something or the other snaps every other month these days. Repairability — even simple things require taking apart the whole car. Durability — you mean the strength of the body? Yeah that seems good, actually. And I know mine is not a one-off case. Maybe the Chinese cars might actually get these things right. We don't know yet. The European cars' redeemable aspect is that they drive well. > As far as I know they also are full of needles software stuff prone to fail Go sit in a new Mercedes BMW, or even Volkswagen and enjoy all those screens. Decide for yourself if they're needed or not. > for the Asians it heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it Fascinating how you caricatured away billions of people with a simple flippant thoughtless remark.
    - qwerty456127 3y ago
      > Fascinating how you caricatured away billions of people with a simple flippant thoughtless remark. I believe caricatures are among the most precious things a human can produce, self-caricaturing even being abong the highest merits. This one is based primarimy on self-reflection, as most of them are, consciously or not.
  - petre 3y ago
- PlunderBunny 3y ago
  I don't think there's any problem with the cars themselves (my parents just bought a BYD Dolphin, and my partner and I are about to buy a LDV eDeliver9), but I think the critical question is - can you get qualified servicing, and spare parts when something goes wrong?
- dv_dt 3y ago
  The language directed at Chinese cars now sounds a lot like that directed at Japanese import cars early on.
- hilux 3y ago
  Those last three brands ... are they sold in the US? Historically, Chinese cars have performed poorly on crash test. Google: chinese car safety zero star Have they improved, and will they continue to improve? Of course.
- ecoquant 3y ago
  I think in the US it is the same issue as Tata. I might buy a Tata Altroz for $7500 if I could go to a Tata dealer and test drive one but Tata doesn't even sell to the US from my understanding. So you can't test drive one, can't get parts for repairs, can't buy one and I am not even 100% sure if you did get one you would be able to get it legally on the road in the US. People had the same perceptions of Kia 20 years ago in the US. The major difference though is that you could actually buy a road legal Kia from a Kia dealer.
  - deleted 3y ago
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  - deleted 3y ago
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  - 2143 3y ago
    Yep. Buy what's available. I wasn't commenting from a US perspective. Whenever a car company sets up shop in a new market (country) it's initially going to be difficult. Particular when it's a large country like USA, although conversely the manufacturer gets access to a large market. Anyway, I don't have much knowledge regarding these things. And not being in the US doesn't imply it's a bad car. Manufacturers choose to enter or not enter certain markets. Business decisions. For example I believe the new Toyota Land Cruiser isn't sold in the US. Nor is any model from Skoda. Doesn't mean they're objectively bad cars.
  - swozey 3y ago
    I'm going to reply here about another comment you made elsewhere, because you're not only deadvoted - people dislike your comments so often that you're shadowbanned here and nobody can read or reply to most of them, but also because it's an absolutely hilariously stupid comment and it deserves to be called out. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=swozey#39709282 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=swozey#39709282 I'll go line by line: > You simply over value your internet presence. You have no internet presence. You're literally shadowbanned/deadnamed on hackernews and not a single person with default HN settings can read your comments. You provide nothing whatsoever to hn. Thats your internet presence here. You're a random, rude green name with [dead] next to it posting like you're galaxy brain v2. In what world are you remotely the person to tell someone that THEIR internet presence, when you can't even maintain civility enough to not be banned, is less important than they believe? > Everyone is basically doing the same thing so it has almost no value. I'm a staff level SRE who works on super performant hpc autoscaling, distributed systems, cluster federations for cdns, massive media farms (think pixar rendering farms) and POPs. Am I a nuclear assassin? No. Do I hire people who do my literal job and know exactly how rare or not rare my skillset is? Yeah, I do. Are you logged into my Indeed and seeing the applications and interviews I'm getting? You're not, right? Sorry you suck. Or your skills suck, or whatever it is that makes you just sound like the miserable low-skill person who wrote your comment. You understand this is HN right? This isn't facebook? We're actual engineers who post our projects and work with one another. The first 4 people who wrote Kubernetes didn't go to Facebook and post it for your cat to see. They came to HN to post it for the other engineers who would build/use the project could be made aware of it. > I think you also highly underestimate the possible negative value of companies finding your internet presence and not liking what they find. I have never read a Linkedin profile in my life that wasn't a total waste of my time because they are all exactly the same. Everyone believes they have something unique and helping them stand out when in reality it is probably doing exactly the opposite. I'm literally the person who is hiring the people in this topic. This is an absolutely ludicrous and just bluntly stupid statement you've made here. Something is wrong with your personality. You are hilariously rude and completely unaware of how ridiculous you sound. Work on integrating into other cultures better. When I moved from the USA to Germany I had to really give people a lot of leeway because they tend to come off as extremely bitter and rude. Now, when I googled "ecoquant" I was hoping to find your github and get a good laugh, but I assume because of how poorly you portray yourself online you don't want your presence to be easily tracked. Because yeah, if I saw your presence online I'd probably not hire you. Kind of like someone who is projecting horrible things onto other people being the actual one to perpetrate those crimes. Interesting.
userbinator 3y ago
I assume you're referring to the fact that many other Chinese products are just that --- products, often with some surprisingly useful features, and not subscriptions? That's been my experience with a lot of no-name/obscure-brand stuff from Ali, but unfortunately a lot of the big prominent Chinese brands have started to go down the enshittification/cloud/subscription route too. Recent example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39115837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39115837
PlunderBunny 3y ago
And a decade from now, the CEOs of the western car companies will blame us for being disloyal as they ask for another taxpayer funded bail-out.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

andyst 3y ago

this is what happens when businesses are led by mbas and accountants, I'm sure the numbers look fantastic

cjbgkagh 3y ago
It's financialization vs industrialization and those decisions are made at the nation state level; "As long as the music is playing, you've got to get up and dance" - Charles Prince.
2four2 3y ago
Short term gains for long term pains. I hope customers steer clear of this behavior to discourage it. I'm personally fatigued by everything being a subscription.

2143 3y ago

Is there anything fundamentally wrong with Chinese cars as opposed to Western cars? I mean, non-western brands such as Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Tata, Mahindra, Proton etc exist, so what's the big deal with Chinese cars? And by the way, I sincerely hope this new subscription-heavy Audi A3 flops.

brikym 3y ago
A few decades ago the Japanese were learning to make cars and there were some quality problems until they figured it out. I think China has gone through a similar thing.
qwerty456127 3y ago
Chinese cars apparently still lack good reputation in terms of durability, repairability or reliability. As far as I know they also are full of needles software stuff prone to fail and to spy on you because the Asians are more prone to welcome digital "progress" and surveillance in their lives. For the westerners mindless consumerism is just a norm so more of them can take it critical, for the Asians who got out of poverty way later it is heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it. Japanese Nissan is infamous for the craziest user privacy policy ever and I doubt any Chinese carmaker is better (I would imagine they have no privacy policy at all, just take whatever data imaginable and stream it in plain-text).
- 2143 3y ago
  > still lack good reputation in terms of durability, repairability or reliability Are Western cars particularly better in these areas? I have a Mercedes E class (W212) bought new several years ago which I've always serviced at Mercedes authorized workshop. It's a money pit. Reliability — something or the other snaps every other month these days. Repairability — even simple things require taking apart the whole car. Durability — you mean the strength of the body? Yeah that seems good, actually. And I know mine is not a one-off case. Maybe the Chinese cars might actually get these things right. We don't know yet. The European cars' redeemable aspect is that they drive well. > As far as I know they also are full of needles software stuff prone to fail Go sit in a new Mercedes BMW, or even Volkswagen and enjoy all those screens. Decide for yourself if they're needed or not. > for the Asians it heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it Fascinating how you caricatured away billions of people with a simple flippant thoughtless remark.
  - qwerty456127 3y ago
    > Fascinating how you caricatured away billions of people with a simple flippant thoughtless remark. I believe caricatures are among the most precious things a human can produce, self-caricaturing even being abong the highest merits. This one is based primarimy on self-reflection, as most of them are, consciously or not.
- petre 3y ago
PlunderBunny 3y ago
I don't think there's any problem with the cars themselves (my parents just bought a BYD Dolphin, and my partner and I are about to buy a LDV eDeliver9), but I think the critical question is - can you get qualified servicing, and spare parts when something goes wrong?
dv_dt 3y ago
The language directed at Chinese cars now sounds a lot like that directed at Japanese import cars early on.
hilux 3y ago
Those last three brands ... are they sold in the US? Historically, Chinese cars have performed poorly on crash test. Google: chinese car safety zero star Have they improved, and will they continue to improve? Of course.
ecoquant 3y ago
I think in the US it is the same issue as Tata. I might buy a Tata Altroz for $7500 if I could go to a Tata dealer and test drive one but Tata doesn't even sell to the US from my understanding. So you can't test drive one, can't get parts for repairs, can't buy one and I am not even 100% sure if you did get one you would be able to get it legally on the road in the US. People had the same perceptions of Kia 20 years ago in the US. The major difference though is that you could actually buy a road legal Kia from a Kia dealer.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- 2143 3y ago
  Yep. Buy what's available. I wasn't commenting from a US perspective. Whenever a car company sets up shop in a new market (country) it's initially going to be difficult. Particular when it's a large country like USA, although conversely the manufacturer gets access to a large market. Anyway, I don't have much knowledge regarding these things. And not being in the US doesn't imply it's a bad car. Manufacturers choose to enter or not enter certain markets. Business decisions. For example I believe the new Toyota Land Cruiser isn't sold in the US. Nor is any model from Skoda. Doesn't mean they're objectively bad cars.
- swozey 3y ago
  I'm going to reply here about another comment you made elsewhere, because you're not only deadvoted - people dislike your comments so often that you're shadowbanned here and nobody can read or reply to most of them, but also because it's an absolutely hilariously stupid comment and it deserves to be called out. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=swozey#39709282 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=swozey#39709282 I'll go line by line: > You simply over value your internet presence. You have no internet presence. You're literally shadowbanned/deadnamed on hackernews and not a single person with default HN settings can read your comments. You provide nothing whatsoever to hn. Thats your internet presence here. You're a random, rude green name with [dead] next to it posting like you're galaxy brain v2. In what world are you remotely the person to tell someone that THEIR internet presence, when you can't even maintain civility enough to not be banned, is less important than they believe? > Everyone is basically doing the same thing so it has almost no value. I'm a staff level SRE who works on super performant hpc autoscaling, distributed systems, cluster federations for cdns, massive media farms (think pixar rendering farms) and POPs. Am I a nuclear assassin? No. Do I hire people who do my literal job and know exactly how rare or not rare my skillset is? Yeah, I do. Are you logged into my Indeed and seeing the applications and interviews I'm getting? You're not, right? Sorry you suck. Or your skills suck, or whatever it is that makes you just sound like the miserable low-skill person who wrote your comment. You understand this is HN right? This isn't facebook? We're actual engineers who post our projects and work with one another. The first 4 people who wrote Kubernetes didn't go to Facebook and post it for your cat to see. They came to HN to post it for the other engineers who would build/use the project could be made aware of it. > I think you also highly underestimate the possible negative value of companies finding your internet presence and not liking what they find. I have never read a Linkedin profile in my life that wasn't a total waste of my time because they are all exactly the same. Everyone believes they have something unique and helping them stand out when in reality it is probably doing exactly the opposite. I'm literally the person who is hiring the people in this topic. This is an absolutely ludicrous and just bluntly stupid statement you've made here. Something is wrong with your personality. You are hilariously rude and completely unaware of how ridiculous you sound. Work on integrating into other cultures better. When I moved from the USA to Germany I had to really give people a lot of leeway because they tend to come off as extremely bitter and rude. Now, when I googled "ecoquant" I was hoping to find your github and get a good laugh, but I assume because of how poorly you portray yourself online you don't want your presence to be easily tracked. Because yeah, if I saw your presence online I'd probably not hire you. Kind of like someone who is projecting horrible things onto other people being the actual one to perpetrate those crimes. Interesting.

userbinator 3y ago

I assume you're referring to the fact that many other Chinese products are just that --- products, often with some surprisingly useful features, and not subscriptions? That's been my experience with a lot of no-name/obscure-brand stuff from Ali, but unfortunately a lot of the big prominent Chinese brands have started to go down the enshittification/cloud/subscription route too. Recent example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39115837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39115837

PlunderBunny 3y ago

And a decade from now, the CEOs of the western car companies will blame us for being disloyal as they ask for another taxpayer funded bail-out.