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Most drivers are virtue signalers. Until we have eco batteries or hydrogen buses and trains are the only real eco solution.

kube-system 3y ago
Unfortunately buses and trains are only viable above a certain density, and many communities exist configured in such a way that they are intentionally low density. While metal mining might have an environmental impact, abandoning millions of existing homes and building new ones in cities not only also has a large environmental impact (concrete also isn't great for the environment), but it is also politically, economically, and practically unviable. A mix of solutions will be needed to fix the variety of different and unique problems that exist.
- pastage 3y ago
  Busses are viable as long as you make them viable. If you have a busstation at a 1 km distance you can make it viable in most places even with the mega sprawl of the US. The economical incentives of a car economy is perverse it is the tradgedy of the commons distilled.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Most of the US has single digit numbers of people per square km. And the average daily commute is 61 km. And suburban sprawl had led to the decline in city centers. Low density, high distance, and poor directionality are very significant challenges for planning a bus line. Have you used bus systems in the US? Even in cities that have made a large investment in bus service, it can be a challenge.
    - bluSCALE4 3y ago
      I personally loved taking busses and trains when I lived in the city. I didn't go far but with a pass I'd take them all the time. I now live in a suburban sprawl and I can never convince my wife to bus it. She usually has a point: it's pretty inconvenient to get from our home to a bus/train stop. I live by a train but would love it if they were electric though that'd do nothing to reduce brake dust.
    - pastage 3y ago
      I know it sucks living in the US without a car, I do think it is important to know that it can be done. You are going to have to prioritize though. I've lived carless in some of the most car dependent places of the earth, including the US so I know what makes that a great deal.
      - kube-system 3y ago
        I closely know people who have lived in extreme rural areas of the US without a car. You are right that it is possible. But it certainly presented significant challenges. There's a reason why people buy cars in the US.
chgs 3y ago
What is wrong with overhead electric for trains? Why some oil company shill nonsense about hydrogen?
- bluSCALE4 3y ago
  They're ugly but I'd love them if I had them. Why the hate for hydrogen? Mark my words, we're being forced to upgrade our HVAC systems to be "green" the use TONS of electricity when in 20-40 years, we're going to do it all over again to move on to hydrogen. I'm already spending $300 a month on electricity using "green" tech. The second I can produce my own hydrogen, I will.
lostlogin 3y ago
> Most drivers are virtue signalers An amazing claim.
- bluSCALE4 3y ago
  Majority don't buy their electricity from green suppliers and don't care where their batteries come from. Cobalt mines are hell. Either way, I stand by what I said. Spending 40k+ on a 10 year product that will cost 20k+ to refurbish isn't green. My 12 yo EV battery cost more than the car to replace.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    In some places it’s fairly hard to get power that isn’t generated by renewables. In New Zealand the grid is 80%+ renewable and my supplier is 100% renewable. My EV cost $13k and was fairly new at purchase.
    - bluSCALE4 3y ago
      In IL there are no green providers but 3rd parties provide it somehow from TX. I'm not sure how it works but it's quite expensive. I did it for a few years but stopped. Now, with my increase in energy usage due to moving away from gas, it's hard to justify. In the United States, we want to move everything to electric and I believe that's a mistake. Not without nuclear power to subsidize costs. I'd imagine my monthly costs would be closer to $400, which I believe to be insane.

kube-system 3y ago

Unfortunately buses and trains are only viable above a certain density, and many communities exist configured in such a way that they are intentionally low density. While metal mining might have an environmental impact, abandoning millions of existing homes and building new ones in cities not only also has a large environmental impact (concrete also isn't great for the environment), but it is also politically, economically, and practically unviable. A mix of solutions will be needed to fix the variety of different and unique problems that exist.

pastage 3y ago
Busses are viable as long as you make them viable. If you have a busstation at a 1 km distance you can make it viable in most places even with the mega sprawl of the US. The economical incentives of a car economy is perverse it is the tradgedy of the commons distilled.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Most of the US has single digit numbers of people per square km. And the average daily commute is 61 km. And suburban sprawl had led to the decline in city centers. Low density, high distance, and poor directionality are very significant challenges for planning a bus line. Have you used bus systems in the US? Even in cities that have made a large investment in bus service, it can be a challenge.
  - bluSCALE4 3y ago
    I personally loved taking busses and trains when I lived in the city. I didn't go far but with a pass I'd take them all the time. I now live in a suburban sprawl and I can never convince my wife to bus it. She usually has a point: it's pretty inconvenient to get from our home to a bus/train stop. I live by a train but would love it if they were electric though that'd do nothing to reduce brake dust.
  - pastage 3y ago
    I know it sucks living in the US without a car, I do think it is important to know that it can be done. You are going to have to prioritize though. I've lived carless in some of the most car dependent places of the earth, including the US so I know what makes that a great deal.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      I closely know people who have lived in extreme rural areas of the US without a car. You are right that it is possible. But it certainly presented significant challenges. There's a reason why people buy cars in the US.

chgs 3y ago

What is wrong with overhead electric for trains? Why some oil company shill nonsense about hydrogen?

bluSCALE4 3y ago
They're ugly but I'd love them if I had them. Why the hate for hydrogen? Mark my words, we're being forced to upgrade our HVAC systems to be "green" the use TONS of electricity when in 20-40 years, we're going to do it all over again to move on to hydrogen. I'm already spending $300 a month on electricity using "green" tech. The second I can produce my own hydrogen, I will.

lostlogin 3y ago

> Most drivers are virtue signalers An amazing claim.

bluSCALE4 3y ago
Majority don't buy their electricity from green suppliers and don't care where their batteries come from. Cobalt mines are hell. Either way, I stand by what I said. Spending 40k+ on a 10 year product that will cost 20k+ to refurbish isn't green. My 12 yo EV battery cost more than the car to replace.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  In some places it’s fairly hard to get power that isn’t generated by renewables. In New Zealand the grid is 80%+ renewable and my supplier is 100% renewable. My EV cost $13k and was fairly new at purchase.
  - bluSCALE4 3y ago
    In IL there are no green providers but 3rd parties provide it somehow from TX. I'm not sure how it works but it's quite expensive. I did it for a few years but stopped. Now, with my increase in energy usage due to moving away from gas, it's hard to justify. In the United States, we want to move everything to electric and I believe that's a mistake. Not without nuclear power to subsidize costs. I'd imagine my monthly costs would be closer to $400, which I believe to be insane.