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The New Audi A3 Is Amess with In-Car Subscriptions
- samsullivan 3y agoWe're going to need some sort of knowledge graph for all the different vehicle models, imagine how vague dealers will be when your looking on the lot. Wonder how crazy this will be once they start adding in-car ads.
- Brajeshwar 3y agoDashboard ads swoops in, “You are now in an un-controllable drift, would you like to top-up your insurance? Say NO to stop; accepting add-on in 10, 9, 8, 7 ...”
- mlinhares 3y agoThe Chinese carmakers will obliterate the western ones, it’s insane how these companies are trying so hard to destroy any possible goodwill people might have.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- andyst 3y agothis is what happens when businesses are led by mbas and accountants, I'm sure the numbers look fantastic
- cjbgkagh 3y agoIt's financialization vs industrialization and those decisions are made at the nation state level; "As long as the music is playing, you've got to get up and dance" - Charles Prince.
- 2four2 3y agoShort term gains for long term pains. I hope customers steer clear of this behavior to discourage it. I'm personally fatigued by everything being a subscription.
- 2143 3y agoIs there anything fundamentally wrong with Chinese cars as opposed to Western cars? I mean, non-western brands such as Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Tata, Mahindra, Proton etc exist, so what's the big deal with Chinese cars? And by the way, I sincerely hope this new subscription-heavy Audi A3 flops.
- brikym 3y agoA few decades ago the Japanese were learning to make cars and there were some quality problems until they figured it out. I think China has gone through a similar thing.
- qwerty456127 3y agoChinese cars apparently still lack good reputation in terms of durability, repairability or reliability. As far as I know they also are full of needles software stuff prone to fail and to spy on you because the Asians are more prone to welcome digital "progress" and surveillance in their lives. For the westerners mindless consumerism is just a norm so more of them can take it critical, for the Asians who got out of poverty way later it is heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it. Japanese Nissan is infamous for the craziest user privacy policy ever and I doubt any Chinese carmaker is better (I would imagine they have no privacy policy at all, just take whatever data imaginable and stream it in plain-text).
- 2143 3y ago> still lack good reputation in terms of durability, repairability or reliability Are Western cars particularly better in these areas? I have a Mercedes E class (W212) bought new several years ago which I've always serviced at Mercedes authorized workshop. It's a money pit. Reliability — something or the other snaps every other month these days. Repairability — even simple things require taking apart the whole car. Durability — you mean the strength of the body? Yeah that seems good, actually. And I know mine is not a one-off case. Maybe the Chinese cars might actually get these things right. We don't know yet. The European cars' redeemable aspect is that they drive well. > As far as I know they also are full of needles software stuff prone to fail Go sit in a new Mercedes BMW, or even Volkswagen and enjoy all those screens. Decide for yourself if they're needed or not. > for the Asians it heaven finally on Earth so they just cheer more and more of it Fascinating how you caricatured away billions of people with a simple flippant thoughtless remark.
- userbinator 3y agoI assume you're referring to the fact that many other Chinese products are just that --- products, often with some surprisingly useful features, and not subscriptions? That's been my experience with a lot of no-name/obscure-brand stuff from Ali, but unfortunately a lot of the big prominent Chinese brands have started to go down the enshittification/cloud/subscription route too. Recent example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39115837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39115837
- PlunderBunny 3y agoAnd a decade from now, the CEOs of the western car companies will blame us for being disloyal as they ask for another taxpayer funded bail-out.
- gnicholas 3y agoToo bad they don't know the subscription pricing for these features, the one-time purchase pricing, or whether it will apply in the US as well (just EU is known so far). I don't have high hopes that the pricing will be reasonable, but IMO as long as you can still buy it outright for a fair price (and when you sell it the next owner doesn't have to pay again), then I don't mind subscriptions being an option. But my guess is that even if prices are fair to begin with, they'll eventually become unreasonable-seeming as consumers get accustomed to having in-car subscriptions.
- rychco 3y agoUnfortunately, Tesla has already set a precedent with regards to reselling a car & the new owners needing to pay for upgraded features again.
- CraigRo 3y agoCurious how this will be enforced. The stripper kia soul was sold without cruise control. But if you simply added the correct button and changed a wire harness, voila! Similarly, the hardware is obviously on the car, so will you have the right to try to use it independent of the software subscription? There are going to be some interesting cases....
- notyourwork 3y agoI will not purchase a car with a subscription, period. If others are doing that, please stop.
- jondwillis 3y agoThoughts on subscription for data connection?
- mook 3y agoNot the same person, but: I'm already paying for a mobile phone; I'm happy to use CarPlay / Android Auto (where it projects a screen like VNC). I don't want a separate connection in the car that I'll need to pay for. I don't really need a data connection in the car directly while I drive. Anecdote: I have a newer ICE car (okay not so new anymore), and its entertainment system rebooted while I was driving at speed at one point. It was fine because that's unrelated to driving functions. I would not be happy if that included my speedometer (which was an old school dial in that vehicle).
- afgrant 3y agoMy phone is always with me when I drive and has a data connection that a car can tether to.
- bfdm 3y agoWhy would I want that? My phone can provide data via Bluetooth or a hotspot if needed. I don't need to pay for an extra mobile connection.
- chris_wot 3y agoI own and iPhone. It works great. I have my "subscription" via my phone plan already. It connects to CarPlay great.
- YeBanKo 3y agoWhat if everyone does it?
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- javajosh 3y agoI strongly believe that cars should not be running internet connected software at all. This is a violation of your privacy waiting to happen, and in drive-by-wire vehicles, a homocide waiting to happen. Any of these subscriptions will require periodic phoning home, which means both the tower operators your car maker, and whoever they've done deals with will have specific, targeted information about you including your exact wherabouts, your financial information, and probably a mic and video camera feed in and around your vehicle. This is a dystopian nightmare. Maybe if the car was leased, or was a business vehicle, this could be justified, maybe. But for a personal vehicle your interaction with the manufacturer and dealer should be strictly limited. Given widespread ignorance about these capabilities and what they are used for, I'm in favor of regulation limiting these kinds of connections and transactions in personal vehicles. Some revenue streams are too dangerous and too risky to the public good to allow to exist.
- ARandomerDude 3y ago> This is a violation of your privacy waiting to happen "Waiting to happen" was 15 years ago. Today it's just privacy violation.
- tivert 3y ago> This is a violation of your privacy waiting to happen... Waiting? It is happening: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39666976 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39666976 (Automakers Are Sharing Consumers' Driving Behavior with Insurance Companies).
- thumbsup-_- 3y ago> but now you'll have to pay an in-car subscription fee for basic features like high-beam assist, dual-zone climate control, adaptive cruise control, and smartphone integration My 2019 fully paid-for-life ford fusion has all these features without any subscription. Thanks Audi for making me feel good about my purchase today.
- grecy 3y agoI look forward to buying a cheap “base” car that requires a ton of subscriptions… and then not buying a single one, keeping it a cheap car.
- xyst 3y agoThe car industry is really hemorrhaging money if they need to resort to nickel and diming the consumers. The consumer segment of car transportation (ie, personal vehicles) is coming to an end. I have yet to see any decent innovations in the personal vehicle segment. Designs haven’t changed in a long time. Efficiency is going backwards, at least in the US, as manufacturers begin to push larger vehicles for the insecure motorist.
- aners_xyz 3y agoI’ve been needing to take rental cars occasionally for a new job and it’s astounding there are new cars being sold that get 25-30mpg max. Some cars have what should be very efficient engines but are strapped to bloated SUVs. It’s more than embarrassing it’s depressing
- xyst 3y agoUnfortunately the CAFE regulations that were put in place a decade ago to increase MPG per manufacturer left a gaping hole or exception for “light duty trucks”. Trucks were seen as “working people” vehicles so the car industry discovered they can skirt those regulations by selling consumers large trucks and SUVs under the “light duty truck” class. Car manufacturer propaganda worked, convinced many family units to upgrade because of perceived “sAfeTy” and “cOmFoRt”. In reality, these things are more dangerous to other people on the road and pedestrians on the streets. I would say 95% of truck and SUV drivers on the road today need to get their license revoked and traded in for mental therapy.
- YeBanKo 3y agoEVs, Hybrids, Tesla, Waymo, Android Auto and Apple CarPlay are innovations in the car industry. They did not come from the incumbents, but innovations rarely do.
- gnicholas 3y agoHybrids came from Toyota, one of the largest incumbents.
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- metabagel 3y agoLexus ES has an optional cloud navigation subscription. I don’t think most people sign up for it, because you can use smart phone integration, but it would be frustrating if you had to have a subscription for the smart phone integration to work. I can see having a subscription for features which require ongoing updates, but the reality is that manufacturers will collect the money and probably not ever do much to keep software which implements features updated.
- gnicholas 3y agoYeah it's crazy to charge for Apple CarPlay on an Audi. It comes standard on nearly all economy cars! There shouldn't be a fee at all — let alone a subscription. Maybe that's the game: distract with outrage over subscriptions, and people will be happy to "just" pay a one-time purchase fee.
- petre 3y agoMaybe that's what a premium car actually is right now: just a more polished economy car but with subscription services that you get for free in the cheaper car, less serviceability more expensive maintenance and repairs. Good luck, Audi. The VW brand already has problems and this is a great way of driving your other brands into the ground. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38455881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38455881
- qingcharles 3y agoI seem to remember the first in-car nav system I used in around 1997 had a subscription from the dealer because they would mail out new CDs to install on a regular basis. (Philips CARIN)
- tivert 3y ago> Lexus ES has an optional cloud navigation subscription. I don’t think most people sign up for it, because you can use smart phone integration, but it would be frustrating if you had to have a subscription for the smart phone integration to work. That's a pretty big oversight on Lexus's part. They're leaving money on the table by giving their customers a subscription bypass like that. Let's hope, for the shareholders' sake, that a business consultant notices the error and fixes it quickly.
- dv_dt 3y agoIt really doesn’t make sense to lay out a lot of capital costs to outfit the cars for features, while driving the customer payments for that capital down by asking for subscriptions. Or maybe you baseline the price higher so it doesn’t matter if only 50% of the customer base pays, but now you’re putting yourself at a price disadvantage vs competitors so don’t put partially utilized cost components on their cars.
- gnicholas 3y agoSounds like it's all software, so no marginal cost of installation: > add-ons like adaptive cruise control or Apple CarPlay and Android Auto
- dv_dt 3y agoI guess I was thinking of seat warmers that had been reported earlier. And adapative cruise usually needs at least some extra ranging sensors.
- gnicholas 3y agoI wondered if the sensors are already there for emergency braking or other safety features. I'm just glad you can buy adaptive cruise on its own. I remember seeing a vehicle recently that you couldn't even get adaptive cruise unless you paid $8k to upgrade to a higher trim level.
- larusso 3y agoIt is not really a new system but the type of features to put behind a paywall is. My car (also from the VW family) has some features which need an extra subscription. But either these are included for the first 3 years, which aims the whole system at second hand buyers, or include features that are not really needed. To be fair we already payed for overpriced features in the past. It was mainly assumed that they will go together with special hardware. But most of the time that wasn‘t actually the truth. „Get the media+ package for Apple car play and sat navigation“ etc. they just try to move some of these packages from the configuration within an AppStore. I still don‘t look forward to a system with monthly/yearly subscriptions.
- belfthrow 3y agoMy Audi from 2018 has car play for free... this is absurd....
- yakorevivan 3y ago[dead]
- dunekid 3y agoHow much do they actually earn from these? The hardware is already paid for. All the effort to create and maintain the subscription system, and the loss of good will, all for the unknown number of people who would actually buy and keep on renewing it. I think it is a net loss for all. Except the consultants who recommended this to get a monthly assured income, that will never materialise.
- evansj 3y agoa mess
- dasKrokodil 3y agoDoes the emission cheating also require a subscription now?
- wbshaw 3y agoIn my experience, the higher end of the product and more often you end up paying extra for features you take for granted. The hotel business has been this way for years with extra fees for all kinds of things that a basic, decent hotel gives you as part of the stay. Think parking, internet, breakfast. They aren't always the best quality but they are included in your rate. You don't have to pay extra. Hell, even resort fees are a form of subscription that are typically not optional - unless you are part of some negotiated deal with the chain. It's all about hiding the real price to make it appear lower.
- freefaler 3y agoThe market should take care of that. An easy way to differentiate your company compared to Audi. I actually bought a second hand base model Kia, swapped some parts to enable auto head lights and cruise control (changed the steering wheel to the one with buttons for cruise control). Swapped the shitty mp3-stereo-radio shit unit with Aliexpress Android 4gb 2Din with specially made Kia-fitting front panel and parking HD camera. And added usb port mounted tire pressure monitoring system. Now I have almost all the features of the higher trim, except folding mirrors (this would be expensive to find and retrofit because new wire harness will be needed). Total cost ~1000 EUR (mostly for the android and some wiring work). Parts can be found in EU at https://rrr.lt/en https://rrr.lt/en.
- freefaler 3y agoahh yeah, and soundproof the doors and if may be the floor of the vehicle. It'll cost may be 400EUR, but it's "much" more quiet than even the higher trims. So there is a way to "upgrade" it. Buy something 3-5 yr. old and fish for second-hand parts on rrr.lt and trim it yourself.