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I love to admire war machines on "hacker" "news" it is such an important part of our site's culture. Technology is always morally neutral, of course, even (or e

I love to admire war machines on "hacker" "news" it is such an important part of our site's culture. Technology is always morally neutral, of course, even (or especially?) if it is explicitly designed to cause death and misery.

ipaddr 3y ago
Wars are meant to end misery and suffering.
- lokar 3y ago
  That is always the claim of one side of each war, more often both.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Wars can be meant to end misery and suffering. Not always. And they always cause misery and suffering, even if they are just.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
pjscott 3y ago
The US, and the allies to which it exports F-35s, are overwhelmingly a net force for peace in the world. There’s a reason why the phrase “Pax Americana” is so well-known. You can think of these as war machines, since they’re literally machines made for use in war — but you can also think of them as war prevention machines, causing would-be aggressors to think twice before, like, invading Singapore or some such unpleasantness.
- ein0p 3y ago
  >> force for peace The entire Middle East begs to differ.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    especially as Western made bombs fall on Gaza On a more statistically relevant note, just note that US / Nato allies feature on like 1/3 of armed conflicts in the 21st century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_2003%E2%80%93present https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_2003%E2%80%93pre...
  - dylan604 3y ago
    No, force for peace at home. Not peace in theater. That's irrelevant /s
- h0l0cube 3y ago
  While I take your point, it’s interesting to note that the US seems poised to return an isolationist leader back into power, pulling funding from NATO and likely resuming a hostile attitude to China. There are many authoritarian leaders looking at how Ukraine and Israel are progressing and considering making a move of their own. Especially as supply issues and wavering political support for overseas military interventions are telling signs of weakness in Pax Americana to protect the world, with attendant peril for the global economy Edit: Just in case it wasn’t obvious, this evolving situation is counter to the hypothesis that improving military capability means ‘world peace’, particularly when there is always asymmetry and misalignment between geopolitical forces
thisgoodlife 3y ago
How do you think we won WW2? By praying?
- dylan604 3y ago
  With War Bonds and rationing of certain materials instead of debt financing them through foreign governments. Sorry, you said won, not pay for. But the point stands. If we were to get into a conflict with China, not sure how the military industrial complex would get funded.
- h0l0cube 3y ago
  You could have picked a better example to counter the OP. It was the ‘war machines’ of ‘death and misery’ that began and enabled a war of such scale, and it was attrition (specifically Russian attrition) of soldiers and arms that brought it to a close.
rashkov 3y ago
if you look through the comments you'll see there's little discussion of the weaponry. The fascinating thing is how huge this project is and how it has become one of the most expensive things ever built. See this from wikipedia, for example: The JSF program was expected to cost about $200 billion for acquisition in base-year 2002 dollars when SDD was awarded in 2001.[56][57] As early as 2005, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) had identified major program risks in cost and schedule.[58] The costly delays strained the relationship between the Pentagon and contractors.[59] By 2017, delays and cost overruns had pushed the F-35 program's expected acquisition costs to $406.5 billion, with total lifetime cost (i.e., to 2070) to $1.5 trillion in then-year dollars which also includes operations and maintenance.[60][61][62] The F-35A's unit cost for LRIP Lot 13 was $79.2 million.[63] Delays in development and operational test and evaluation, including integration into the Joint Simulation Environment, pushed full-rate production decision to March 2024, although actual production rate had already approached the full rate by 2020; full rate at the Fort Worth plan is 156 aircraft annually.[64][65]

ipaddr 3y ago

Wars are meant to end misery and suffering.

lokar 3y ago
That is always the claim of one side of each war, more often both.
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Wars can be meant to end misery and suffering. Not always. And they always cause misery and suffering, even if they are just.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

pjscott 3y ago

The US, and the allies to which it exports F-35s, are overwhelmingly a net force for peace in the world. There’s a reason why the phrase “Pax Americana” is so well-known. You can think of these as war machines, since they’re literally machines made for use in war — but you can also think of them as war prevention machines, causing would-be aggressors to think twice before, like, invading Singapore or some such unpleasantness.

ein0p 3y ago
>> force for peace The entire Middle East begs to differ.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  especially as Western made bombs fall on Gaza On a more statistically relevant note, just note that US / Nato allies feature on like 1/3 of armed conflicts in the 21st century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_2003%E2%80%93present https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_2003%E2%80%93pre...
- dylan604 3y ago
  No, force for peace at home. Not peace in theater. That's irrelevant /s
h0l0cube 3y ago
While I take your point, it’s interesting to note that the US seems poised to return an isolationist leader back into power, pulling funding from NATO and likely resuming a hostile attitude to China. There are many authoritarian leaders looking at how Ukraine and Israel are progressing and considering making a move of their own. Especially as supply issues and wavering political support for overseas military interventions are telling signs of weakness in Pax Americana to protect the world, with attendant peril for the global economy Edit: Just in case it wasn’t obvious, this evolving situation is counter to the hypothesis that improving military capability means ‘world peace’, particularly when there is always asymmetry and misalignment between geopolitical forces

thisgoodlife 3y ago

How do you think we won WW2? By praying?

dylan604 3y ago
With War Bonds and rationing of certain materials instead of debt financing them through foreign governments. Sorry, you said won, not pay for. But the point stands. If we were to get into a conflict with China, not sure how the military industrial complex would get funded.
h0l0cube 3y ago
You could have picked a better example to counter the OP. It was the ‘war machines’ of ‘death and misery’ that began and enabled a war of such scale, and it was attrition (specifically Russian attrition) of soldiers and arms that brought it to a close.

rashkov 3y ago

if you look through the comments you'll see there's little discussion of the weaponry. The fascinating thing is how huge this project is and how it has become one of the most expensive things ever built. See this from wikipedia, for example: The JSF program was expected to cost about $200 billion for acquisition in base-year 2002 dollars when SDD was awarded in 2001.[56][57] As early as 2005, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) had identified major program risks in cost and schedule.[58] The costly delays strained the relationship between the Pentagon and contractors.[59] By 2017, delays and cost overruns had pushed the F-35 program's expected acquisition costs to $406.5 billion, with total lifetime cost (i.e., to 2070) to $1.5 trillion in then-year dollars which also includes operations and maintenance.[60][61][62] The F-35A's unit cost for LRIP Lot 13 was $79.2 million.[63] Delays in development and operational test and evaluation, including integration into the Joint Simulation Environment, pushed full-rate production decision to March 2024, although actual production rate had already approached the full rate by 2020; full rate at the Fort Worth plan is 156 aircraft annually.[64][65]