4 ms·

With Vision Pro launched, companies must talk about XR, nausea and gender

13 points by SLHamlet 3y ago

dsgnr 3y ago
[dead]
ozten 3y ago
I 100% agree with promoting Danah Boyd's research and looking at AVP versus Quest 3 in those terms. > “On the point of gender differences, I hope companies can share more open research on this,” Bar-Zeev told me recently. > If they don’t, he adds, “we should assume they’re worried about something, or they just don’t care.” This seems flippant. Identifying the sources of VR sickness is complicated. Hardware, OS, and 3rd party software all contribute. The shape and symmetry of each individual brings a lot of variables as well. I'm skeptical that you could have an industry standard way to measure VR sickness risks of a particular device or game. AVP in mixed reality mode takes control of a lot of the experience such as rendering and it is done at a very high quality. But if developers ship a fully immersive AVP app they can very easily create a vomitorium app.
- SLHamlet 3y ago
  As Bar-Zeev mentions (and Avi was a lead designer on Vision Pro), even a mixed reality experience can cause nausea. Far as being "flippant", when I asked Carmack about the topic while CTO at Oculus, he told me that wasn't his department (!). Dude, that your device tends to get half the population sick isn't your problem?
  - ozten 3y ago
    > even a mixed reality experience can cause nausea Absolutely! I was just trying to paint a picture of the extremes available on the AVP from "safest" to worst case. But even "safest" will not be usable/comfortable for 100% of the population.
napolux 3y ago
I suffer a lot from motion sickness using VR. I can play games where I'm standing still (Moss, Beat Saber) but racing simulators make me feel sick. Guess I'll be in trouble if somehow we end up using VR/XR all the time.
- ok_dad 3y ago
  Funny, I’m the opposite. Anything with slow walking motion or standing makes me sick but I love racing in VR.
  - AustinDev 3y ago
    Fun story, a friend of mine is a fighter pilot flight school instructor for the Air Force. He has flown all sorts of crazy planes some with HMD's. He can barely play a flight sim in VR for an hour or two without getting motion sick.
    - bitwize 3y ago
      "Simulation sickness" comes from the fact that when there's a disparity between your visual sense of motion and your inner-ear inertial sense of motion, your autonomic nervous system thinks you may have been poisoned and induces vomiting to help get rid of the poison. Your friend having flown real planes probably makes him even more sensitive to sim sickness because his vestibular system has been trained on motion from actual flights, meaning it can perceive the mismatch in the sim much more acutely.
      - ok_dad 3y ago
        Makes sense, I drive in the sim way way more than real life and I get sick in the car now due to visual differences. My spouse has to drive most places.
        jononor 3y ago
        Reverse VR sickness :o That is quite interesting
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
karmakaze 3y ago
Wikipedia page[0] mentions having a fixed nose visual can reduce nausea, which is something I've read/heard elsewhere as well. According to several studies, introducing a static frame of reference (independent visual background) may reduce simulation sickness. A technique called Nasum Virtualis shows a virtual nose as a fixed frame of reference for VR headsets. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality_sickness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality_sickness
londons_explore 3y ago
If there is a gender component to risk of VR sickness, it seems likely it is related to some calibration factor being wrong due to differing head size - eg. The distance between the eyes, the center of rotation of the eyeballs, etc. I'm sure VR companies are working on it, because nausea isn't good for business...

13 points by SLHamlet 3y ago

[dead]

I 100% agree with promoting Danah Boyd's research and looking at AVP versus Quest 3 in those terms. > “On the point of gender differences, I hope companies can share more open research on this,” Bar-Zeev told me recently. > If they don’t, he adds, “we should assume they’re worried about something, or they just don’t care.” This seems flippant. Identifying the sources of VR sickness is complicated. Hardware, OS, and 3rd party software all contribute. The shape and symmetry of each individual brings a lot of variables as well. I'm skeptical that you could have an industry standard way to measure VR sickness risks of a particular device or game. AVP in mixed reality mode takes control of a lot of the experience such as rendering and it is done at a very high quality. But if developers ship a fully immersive AVP app they can very easily create a vomitorium app.

SLHamlet 3y ago
As Bar-Zeev mentions (and Avi was a lead designer on Vision Pro), even a mixed reality experience can cause nausea. Far as being "flippant", when I asked Carmack about the topic while CTO at Oculus, he told me that wasn't his department (!). Dude, that your device tends to get half the population sick isn't your problem?
- ozten 3y ago
  > even a mixed reality experience can cause nausea Absolutely! I was just trying to paint a picture of the extremes available on the AVP from "safest" to worst case. But even "safest" will not be usable/comfortable for 100% of the population.

napolux 3y ago

I suffer a lot from motion sickness using VR. I can play games where I'm standing still (Moss, Beat Saber) but racing simulators make me feel sick. Guess I'll be in trouble if somehow we end up using VR/XR all the time.

ok_dad 3y ago
Funny, I’m the opposite. Anything with slow walking motion or standing makes me sick but I love racing in VR.
- AustinDev 3y ago
  Fun story, a friend of mine is a fighter pilot flight school instructor for the Air Force. He has flown all sorts of crazy planes some with HMD's. He can barely play a flight sim in VR for an hour or two without getting motion sick.
  - bitwize 3y ago
    "Simulation sickness" comes from the fact that when there's a disparity between your visual sense of motion and your inner-ear inertial sense of motion, your autonomic nervous system thinks you may have been poisoned and induces vomiting to help get rid of the poison. Your friend having flown real planes probably makes him even more sensitive to sim sickness because his vestibular system has been trained on motion from actual flights, meaning it can perceive the mismatch in the sim much more acutely.
    - ok_dad 3y ago
      Makes sense, I drive in the sim way way more than real life and I get sick in the car now due to visual differences. My spouse has to drive most places.
      - jononor 3y ago
        Reverse VR sickness :o That is quite interesting

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

karmakaze 3y ago

Wikipedia page[0] mentions having a fixed nose visual can reduce nausea, which is something I've read/heard elsewhere as well. According to several studies, introducing a static frame of reference (independent visual background) may reduce simulation sickness. A technique called Nasum Virtualis shows a virtual nose as a fixed frame of reference for VR headsets. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality_sickness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality_sickness

londons_explore 3y ago

If there is a gender component to risk of VR sickness, it seems likely it is related to some calibration factor being wrong due to differing head size - eg. The distance between the eyes, the center of rotation of the eyeballs, etc. I'm sure VR companies are working on it, because nausea isn't good for business...