6 ms·

I’m not sure how I feel about the logistics of this. On the one hand, municipality to municipality (Antwerp to NYC) makes sense since both will have similar ch

by mikrl 3y ago

I’m not sure how I feel about the logistics of this. On the one hand, municipality to municipality (Antwerp to NYC) makes sense since both will have similar challenges in law enforcement activities. On the other hand, this seems to be a channel that bypasses the Feds, who are ultimately the ones with the National Security purview, and most/all foreign threats to NYC will pass through the Feds jurisdiction (border control, customs, coast guard etc)

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> most/all foreign threats to NYC will pass through the Feds jurisdiction (border control, customs, coast guard etc) After 9/11, it seems fair for New York to want to take anti-terrorism into its own hands, even if that duplicates certain federal functions. (I'm not arguing it's effective. Just that it makes sense for the city to not entirely trust the Feds.)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- zwirbl 3y ago
  That doesn't really make sense, will the NYPD start patrolling airports in Europe and flights to the US?
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > will the NYPD start patrolling airports in Europe and flights to the US? To my knowledge, the NYPD doesn't patrol outside its borders. The international offices are for coördinating intelligence.
  - mikrl 3y ago
    I was surprised to see US border control at Toronto Pearson but I suppose it makes sense to screen passengers on this side given the proximity of Toronto to a US workforce, and it would alleviate US airports to receive Canadian traffic as a pseudo-domestic arrival (I assume this is what happened when I flew YYZ->DFW)
    - ska 3y ago
      It's not just Canada, there are several countries in this program: https://www.cbp.gov/travel/preclearance https://www.cbp.gov/travel/preclearance
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      They do this in a number of other places that have lots of flights to the US. https://www.cbp.gov/travel/preclearance https://www.cbp.gov/travel/preclearance > Today, CBP has more than 600 officers and agriculture specialists stationed at 15 Preclearance locations in 6 countries: Dublin and Shannon in Ireland; Aruba; Bermuda; Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates; Nassau in the Bahamas; and Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Victoria, and Winnipeg in Canada.
      - kwhitefoot 3y ago
        Not just the US. UK passport control going from France to England by ferry is on the French side of the channel.
        andylynch 3y ago
        And vice versa. The French Border Police are quite different in attitude to the UK Border Force.
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      the other reason is that if canadian traffic can come into the US as domestic pre-cleared, then travelers are free to transfer within the US much more easily. this makes things much easier for places that do not have direct connections to Canadian airports. (in the US, even if transiting to another country you are required to clear US customs.)
    - bombcar 3y ago
      It allows Canadian flights to go to (US) domestic airports, including those without active customs.
- r00fus 3y ago
  Does it? Why does the NYPD have an office in Tel Aviv for example?
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Why does the NYPD have an office in Tel Aviv for example? Presumably to coördinate intelligence? (I'm guesing.) If you don't trust the Feds, your options are to partner or duplicate that capability in house. Partnering seems the cheaper option.
    - text0404 3y ago
      foreign intelligence is outside the purview of a domestic municipal police department. the US does not allow foreign municipalities to install police departments on US soil.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > foreign intelligence is outside the purview of a domestic municipal police department Demonstrably, not the NYPD's. > US does not allow foreign municipalities to install police departments on US soil Sure. But those foreign countries allowed them. And again, nobody is granting the NYPD extraterritorial policing powers. They're there to collaborate on intelligence.
        jonathankoren 3y ago
        >> foreign intelligence is outside the purview of a domestic municipal police department > Demonstrably, not the NYPD's. Is it demonstrable? Allow me to skeptical until New York's Finest crack a case that the NSA, CIA, and FBI can't handle. This looks like a cushy assignment for some people with union pull.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Is it demonstrable? Allow me to skeptical until New York's Finest crack a case that the NSA, CIA, and FBI can't handle. It's demonstrable that foreign intelligence is within the NYPD's purview given they're doing it. No claims were made about efficacy. Also, I don't think the NYPD aims to crack cases the Feds can't. It's more about directing resources towards areas they believe the Fed's aren't monitoring effectively or won't commit the resources they believe it deserves. If something were picked up, the NYPD would loop in the Feds.
- ben_w 3y ago
  I keep hearing (from abroad) about the "militarisation of the police" in the US. Unless the NYPD took this as far as SAM batteries, what could they do against another 9/11, given the original four planes didn't take off from NY state let alone city?
  - vkou 3y ago
    The only thing anyone can do against another 9/11 is what we've already done. Reinforced cockpit doors. All the rest is just bullshit and security theater (Which NYC is exceedingly good at.)
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > unless the NYPD took this as far as SAM batteries, what could they do against another 9/11 Notify the Feds. (Though I guess we can shoot down planes now? [1]) [1] https://nationalpost.com/news/nypd-able-to-shoot-down-planes-over-city-police-chief https://nationalpost.com/news/nypd-able-to-shoot-down-planes...

by mikrl 3y ago

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> most/all foreign threats to NYC will pass through the Feds jurisdiction (border control, customs, coast guard etc) After 9/11, it seems fair for New York to want to take anti-terrorism into its own hands, even if that duplicates certain federal functions. (I'm not arguing it's effective. Just that it makes sense for the city to not entirely trust the Feds.)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zwirbl 3y ago
That doesn't really make sense, will the NYPD start patrolling airports in Europe and flights to the US?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > will the NYPD start patrolling airports in Europe and flights to the US? To my knowledge, the NYPD doesn't patrol outside its borders. The international offices are for coördinating intelligence.
- mikrl 3y ago
  I was surprised to see US border control at Toronto Pearson but I suppose it makes sense to screen passengers on this side given the proximity of Toronto to a US workforce, and it would alleviate US airports to receive Canadian traffic as a pseudo-domestic arrival (I assume this is what happened when I flew YYZ->DFW)
  - ska 3y ago
    It's not just Canada, there are several countries in this program: https://www.cbp.gov/travel/preclearance https://www.cbp.gov/travel/preclearance
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    They do this in a number of other places that have lots of flights to the US. https://www.cbp.gov/travel/preclearance https://www.cbp.gov/travel/preclearance > Today, CBP has more than 600 officers and agriculture specialists stationed at 15 Preclearance locations in 6 countries: Dublin and Shannon in Ireland; Aruba; Bermuda; Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates; Nassau in the Bahamas; and Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton, Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Victoria, and Winnipeg in Canada.
    - kwhitefoot 3y ago
      Not just the US. UK passport control going from France to England by ferry is on the French side of the channel.
      - andylynch 3y ago
        And vice versa. The French Border Police are quite different in attitude to the UK Border Force.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    the other reason is that if canadian traffic can come into the US as domestic pre-cleared, then travelers are free to transfer within the US much more easily. this makes things much easier for places that do not have direct connections to Canadian airports. (in the US, even if transiting to another country you are required to clear US customs.)
  - bombcar 3y ago
    It allows Canadian flights to go to (US) domestic airports, including those without active customs.
r00fus 3y ago
Does it? Why does the NYPD have an office in Tel Aviv for example?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Why does the NYPD have an office in Tel Aviv for example? Presumably to coördinate intelligence? (I'm guesing.) If you don't trust the Feds, your options are to partner or duplicate that capability in house. Partnering seems the cheaper option.
  - text0404 3y ago
    foreign intelligence is outside the purview of a domestic municipal police department. the US does not allow foreign municipalities to install police departments on US soil.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > foreign intelligence is outside the purview of a domestic municipal police department Demonstrably, not the NYPD's. > US does not allow foreign municipalities to install police departments on US soil Sure. But those foreign countries allowed them. And again, nobody is granting the NYPD extraterritorial policing powers. They're there to collaborate on intelligence.
      - jonathankoren 3y ago
        >> foreign intelligence is outside the purview of a domestic municipal police department > Demonstrably, not the NYPD's. Is it demonstrable? Allow me to skeptical until New York's Finest crack a case that the NSA, CIA, and FBI can't handle. This looks like a cushy assignment for some people with union pull.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Is it demonstrable? Allow me to skeptical until New York's Finest crack a case that the NSA, CIA, and FBI can't handle. It's demonstrable that foreign intelligence is within the NYPD's purview given they're doing it. No claims were made about efficacy. Also, I don't think the NYPD aims to crack cases the Feds can't. It's more about directing resources towards areas they believe the Fed's aren't monitoring effectively or won't commit the resources they believe it deserves. If something were picked up, the NYPD would loop in the Feds.
ben_w 3y ago
I keep hearing (from abroad) about the "militarisation of the police" in the US. Unless the NYPD took this as far as SAM batteries, what could they do against another 9/11, given the original four planes didn't take off from NY state let alone city?
- vkou 3y ago
  The only thing anyone can do against another 9/11 is what we've already done. Reinforced cockpit doors. All the rest is just bullshit and security theater (Which NYC is exceedingly good at.)
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > unless the NYPD took this as far as SAM batteries, what could they do against another 9/11 Notify the Feds. (Though I guess we can shoot down planes now? [1]) [1] https://nationalpost.com/news/nypd-able-to-shoot-down-planes-over-city-police-chief https://nationalpost.com/news/nypd-able-to-shoot-down-planes...