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> $3.5b Which is a fourth of what they spent in VR/AR in a year. And Gen AI is something they could easily get more revenue as it has now become proven technol

> $3.5b Which is a fourth of what they spent in VR/AR in a year. And Gen AI is something they could easily get more revenue as it has now become proven technology, and Meta could possibly leapfrog others because of the data moat.

NBJack 3y ago
What moat exactly? Much of the user data they have access to is drying up due to new regulations, some of which prohibit IIRC direct use on models as well. I'm not even sure they can use historical data. Meta certainly has an edge in engineer count, undoubtedly. But I'd say they really, really want the metaverse to succeed more to have their on walled garden (i.e. equivalent power of Apple and Google stores, etc.). There's a reason they gave a hard pass to a Google partnership.
- Dr_Birdbrain 3y ago
  I think the raw text inside Facebook groups is at least as valuable as Reddit data. Even if demographics data is restricted under European law, the raw text of people interacting is quite valuable.
  - calvinmorrison 3y ago
    facebooks downfall will be their lock in. every other social media platform lets you view a public profile, discussion groups etc. it's all locked inside facebook.
  - verticalscaler 3y ago
    Indeed, my deranged auntie posting on FB is approximately as valuable as my ADHD/PTSD quaranteeny nephew redditing.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      That ignores all the user groups that are on Facebook. From apartment communities aka Nextdoor to grief support counseling to the mindfulness therapy groups, there’s a wealth of user comments a tad bit higher than Uncle John’s racist rants.
    - infecto 3y ago
      Ahhh you had posted some other negative META criticism that was not even factual. Your made-up narratives really do not paint the correct picture.
- YetAnotherNick 3y ago
  > Much of the user data they have access to is drying up due to new regulations, some of which prohibit IIRC direct use on models as well. Source would be appreciated, because this is opposite of obvious. Regulations against using public first party would be a big news and I haven't heard of anything like that. They use my data for recommending feed so why not for answering my question?
  - NBJack 3y ago
    Insufficient reasons for consent: https://iapp.org/news/a/10-takeaways-from-the-irish-dpc-decisions-on-meta/ https://iapp.org/news/a/10-takeaways-from-the-irish-dpc-deci... Decreased ability to 'mix' it: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ecpms-why-first-party-data-big-problem-andrew-wailes-abw1e https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ecpms-why-first-party-data-bi... First party data alone can't tell you whether an ad resulted in a sale, unless you own the entire process on your platform. Contrast this with what Apple has via its app store; the fees do more than generate money.
- agar 3y ago
  > There's a reason they gave a hard pass to a Google partnership. AIUI, Google required Meta to basically cede control of a partnered OS to them: "After years of not focusing on VR or doing anything to support our work in the space, Google has been pitching AndroidXR to partners and suggesting, incredibly, that WE are the ones threatening to fragment the ecosystem when they are the ones who plan to do exactly that. "We would love to partner with them. They could bring their apps to Quest today! They could bring the Play store (with its current economics for 2d apps) and add value to all their developers immediately, which is exactly the kind of open app ecosystem we want to see. We would be thrilled to have them. It would be a win for their developers and all consumers and we’ll keep pushing for it. "Instead, they want us to agree to restrictive terms that require us to give up our freedom to innovate and build better experiences for people and developers—we’ve seen this play out before and we think we can do better this time around." -- From Mark Bosworth
dougb5 3y ago
Proven technology, maybe, but proven product-market fit for the kinds of things Facebook is using it for? Their linked blog about AI features gives examples "AI stickers" and image editing... cool, but are these potential multi-billion dollar lifts to their existing business? I guess I'm skeptical it's worthwhile unless they're able to unseat ChatGPT with a market-leading general purpose assistant.
- pests 3y ago
  I have a few group chats just that devolve into hours of sending stickers or image generation back and forth, lately we've been "writing a book together" with @Meta AI as the ghost writer, and while it utterly sucks, its been a hilarious shared experience. I don't think anyone else has gotten that group chat with AI thing so nailed.
  - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
    On the podcast TrashFuture, November Kelly recently described AI systems as “garbage dispensers” which is both a funny image (why would anyone make a garbage dispenser??) and an apt description. Certainly these tools have some utility, but there are a load of startups claiming to “democratize creativity” by allowing anyone to publish AI generated slop to major platforms. On the podcast this phrase was used during discussion of a website which lets you create AI generated music and push it to Spotify, a move which Spotify originally pushed back on but has now embraced. Garbage dispenser indeed.
- YetAnotherNick 3y ago
  > unseat ChatGPT with a market-leading general purpose assistant. It's not impossible. The prediction from many(not that I believe it) is that over long run modelling tricks would become common knowledge and only thing that matters is compute and data, both of which Meta has. Also there could be a trend of LLMs for ads or feed recommendation in the future as they has large completely unstructured dataset per user across multiple sites.
  - cj 3y ago

NBJack 3y ago

What moat exactly? Much of the user data they have access to is drying up due to new regulations, some of which prohibit IIRC direct use on models as well. I'm not even sure they can use historical data. Meta certainly has an edge in engineer count, undoubtedly. But I'd say they really, really want the metaverse to succeed more to have their on walled garden (i.e. equivalent power of Apple and Google stores, etc.). There's a reason they gave a hard pass to a Google partnership.

Dr_Birdbrain 3y ago
I think the raw text inside Facebook groups is at least as valuable as Reddit data. Even if demographics data is restricted under European law, the raw text of people interacting is quite valuable.
- calvinmorrison 3y ago
  facebooks downfall will be their lock in. every other social media platform lets you view a public profile, discussion groups etc. it's all locked inside facebook.
- verticalscaler 3y ago
  Indeed, my deranged auntie posting on FB is approximately as valuable as my ADHD/PTSD quaranteeny nephew redditing.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    That ignores all the user groups that are on Facebook. From apartment communities aka Nextdoor to grief support counseling to the mindfulness therapy groups, there’s a wealth of user comments a tad bit higher than Uncle John’s racist rants.
  - infecto 3y ago
    Ahhh you had posted some other negative META criticism that was not even factual. Your made-up narratives really do not paint the correct picture.
YetAnotherNick 3y ago
> Much of the user data they have access to is drying up due to new regulations, some of which prohibit IIRC direct use on models as well. Source would be appreciated, because this is opposite of obvious. Regulations against using public first party would be a big news and I haven't heard of anything like that. They use my data for recommending feed so why not for answering my question?
- NBJack 3y ago
  Insufficient reasons for consent: https://iapp.org/news/a/10-takeaways-from-the-irish-dpc-decisions-on-meta/ https://iapp.org/news/a/10-takeaways-from-the-irish-dpc-deci... Decreased ability to 'mix' it: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ecpms-why-first-party-data-big-problem-andrew-wailes-abw1e https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ecpms-why-first-party-data-bi... First party data alone can't tell you whether an ad resulted in a sale, unless you own the entire process on your platform. Contrast this with what Apple has via its app store; the fees do more than generate money.
agar 3y ago
> There's a reason they gave a hard pass to a Google partnership. AIUI, Google required Meta to basically cede control of a partnered OS to them: "After years of not focusing on VR or doing anything to support our work in the space, Google has been pitching AndroidXR to partners and suggesting, incredibly, that WE are the ones threatening to fragment the ecosystem when they are the ones who plan to do exactly that. "We would love to partner with them. They could bring their apps to Quest today! They could bring the Play store (with its current economics for 2d apps) and add value to all their developers immediately, which is exactly the kind of open app ecosystem we want to see. We would be thrilled to have them. It would be a win for their developers and all consumers and we’ll keep pushing for it. "Instead, they want us to agree to restrictive terms that require us to give up our freedom to innovate and build better experiences for people and developers—we’ve seen this play out before and we think we can do better this time around." -- From Mark Bosworth

dougb5 3y ago

Proven technology, maybe, but proven product-market fit for the kinds of things Facebook is using it for? Their linked blog about AI features gives examples "AI stickers" and image editing... cool, but are these potential multi-billion dollar lifts to their existing business? I guess I'm skeptical it's worthwhile unless they're able to unseat ChatGPT with a market-leading general purpose assistant.

pests 3y ago
I have a few group chats just that devolve into hours of sending stickers or image generation back and forth, lately we've been "writing a book together" with @Meta AI as the ghost writer, and while it utterly sucks, its been a hilarious shared experience. I don't think anyone else has gotten that group chat with AI thing so nailed.
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  On the podcast TrashFuture, November Kelly recently described AI systems as “garbage dispensers” which is both a funny image (why would anyone make a garbage dispenser??) and an apt description. Certainly these tools have some utility, but there are a load of startups claiming to “democratize creativity” by allowing anyone to publish AI generated slop to major platforms. On the podcast this phrase was used during discussion of a website which lets you create AI generated music and push it to Spotify, a move which Spotify originally pushed back on but has now embraced. Garbage dispenser indeed.
YetAnotherNick 3y ago
> unseat ChatGPT with a market-leading general purpose assistant. It's not impossible. The prediction from many(not that I believe it) is that over long run modelling tricks would become common knowledge and only thing that matters is compute and data, both of which Meta has. Also there could be a trend of LLMs for ads or feed recommendation in the future as they has large completely unstructured dataset per user across multiple sites.
- cj 3y ago