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LineageOS 21 review: Smartphone sustainability starts with software [video]

39 points by mikece 3y ago

oaththrowaway 3y ago
I've been using Lineage+MicroG for the past several years and I won't buy a phone that isn't supported by it going forward: https://lineage.microg.org https://lineage.microg.org
- Timber-6539 3y ago
  This rom build from microG may not even be needed since LineageOS now supports signature spoofing (as of a few weeks ago).
  - crtasm 3y ago
    Do you have a link for info on that? I tried the changelog https://lineageos.org/Changelog-28/ https://lineageos.org/Changelog-28/ edit, found this - only for for microG Companion/Services https://review.lineageos.org/c/LineageOS/android_frameworks_base/+/383573 https://review.lineageos.org/c/LineageOS/android_frameworks_...
  - RealStickman_ 3y ago
    Official builds before this could still be made to work with microg using the "microg installer revived" Magisk module. That's how I installed it on my current phone while still getting the benefits of more regular updates.
aceazzameen 3y ago
I've always wanted to try Lineage, but I've never owned a device supported by it. I tend to use Samsung. And for some reason, it only supports devices on models/years I've skipped and then stopped at the 10 series. Guess it wasn't meant to be.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  If memory serves, that's less of a Lineage problem and more of a Samsung problem; they tend to be hostile to user modification (locked bootloaders, etc.). Or at least, that was the case last time I looked at them.
  - IntelMiner 3y ago
    Shout out to LG as well for sending their final phone to E-waste in the same way The LG Velvet is the only "flagship specification" phone I could get in Australia with 5G, a MicroSD card slot and a headphone jack! 3 weeks later LG killed it citing the "other big unnamed Korean electronics giant taking all our market share" and then later promising "2 years of updates guys, we promise!" At least if we could unlock the fucking bootloader we could port Lineage or Graphene or something to it. But (at least on EU derived models like mine) that never happened Reluctantly on a Pixel 7 Pro now
  - abawany 3y ago
    I agree - older Samsung devices used to work well with LOS thanks to the unlockable bootloader. My last Samsung with LOS was a Galaxy Note 3 - it seems that Samsung devices after that became increasingly unfriendly to modifications. I haven't purchased Samsung devices since because their stock firmware is unpleasant (forced bixby, coerced signup with Samsung in addition to Google, uninstallable garbage, etc.)
  - aceazzameen 3y ago
    True! But an example is I have a perfectly good Samsung Note 8 that isn't being used. But Lineage only supports Note 9 and 10.
- npteljes 3y ago
  It's a shame, because I really like the Samsung build quality. I have ran Lineage on the S4, my first Lineage phone, then S7, then S9 was my last. They were a joy to hold in hand, and, I felt, a testament on how good manufacturing got in my time. But, as many others, I wanted a specific OS to run, and that needed a specific phone, and so, I'm using GrapheneOS on a Pixel 7a now. It's a mixed bag, I definitely feel the step down in some respects, and the step up too at the same time.
cf100clunk 3y ago
Over the last decade or so I extended the useable, updateable life of several ASUS Android phones using LineageOS (née CyanogenMod). I'm now a GrapheneOS Pixel user, but I'd use LineageOS again on suitable devices as needed. If you're thinking of using LineageOS, make sure to look up MicroG to see if you can or cannot live without that additional set of apps and libraries: https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/
Ringz 3y ago
I would love to use an open system on every smartphone but: Can I use my banking software with all the security bells and whistles?
- cf100clunk 3y ago
  The phone itself might be configurable to do your banking, but sadly there may be problems related to their support of platforms: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39674827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39674827 So the answer is maybe?
- phh 3y ago
  > Can I use my banking software with all the security bells and whistles? Most custom ROMs(including official LineageOS) are as secure, usually even more, than OEM ROMs. There is just one threat model where it is weaker, which is the evil maid. But it is safer on all the other ones (the evil metro wifi, the evil video, the evil app...). (and personally I take the metro everyday, while taking my shower while I have a maid home just doesn't happen) As for whether banking apps will work, it's entirely dependant on whether your back is trying to serve their customers or not. Most banks I use work just fine on custom ROMs without hacks. But for instance Google Pay is skimming down on costs, and users pay the price for it.
  - npteljes 3y ago
    From a usability standpoint, the reasons don't matter, many of the banking apps are unusable, full stop. This is something that someone has to reckon with, if they want to venture into the custom OS land.
  - logicprog 3y ago
    > Most custom ROMs(including official LineageOS) are as secure, usually even more, than OEM ROM I definitely don't think that's the case. I'd check out the sections on microG and custom ROMs here: https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html (they're very knowledgeable, so usually factually accurate, but often frame or evaluate things in a very biased way IMHO, so be sure to evaluate the verifiable facts they state for yourself, and your own threat model). They're way more open to exploitation and far less secure than OEM ROMs, typically because of the way they have to pry open security stuff to get their various hacks to work. They are typically much better on privacy, but having your phone, from which you do all your communication and banking, and which has a dense cluster of sensors and transmitters that follow you wherever you go, be more open to exploitation by any random hacker or piece or malware seems like a bad idea to me.
ktosobcy 3y ago
Would be nice if all phones were supported and not locked (just like on pci can install Linux or Windows in version / distribution I choose)...
n8henrie 3y ago
My kingdom for a root / exploit for >=2020 kindle fires that would allow me to put lineageos on my kids' devices!
iAkashPaul 3y ago
OnePlus 6T with Android 14 is still working like a charm, this even beat out Nothing Phone 1 in getting the latest Android update
thatguy27 3y ago
Wish there was a phone where the camera on LineageOS is as good as the stock. On my Samsung Galaxy S7 using the camera on non-stock in painful (takes seconds to focus, when it focuses at all).

39 points by mikece 3y ago

I've been using Lineage+MicroG for the past several years and I won't buy a phone that isn't supported by it going forward: https://lineage.microg.org https://lineage.microg.org

Timber-6539 3y ago
This rom build from microG may not even be needed since LineageOS now supports signature spoofing (as of a few weeks ago).
- crtasm 3y ago
  Do you have a link for info on that? I tried the changelog https://lineageos.org/Changelog-28/ https://lineageos.org/Changelog-28/ edit, found this - only for for microG Companion/Services https://review.lineageos.org/c/LineageOS/android_frameworks_base/+/383573 https://review.lineageos.org/c/LineageOS/android_frameworks_...
- RealStickman_ 3y ago
  Official builds before this could still be made to work with microg using the "microg installer revived" Magisk module. That's how I installed it on my current phone while still getting the benefits of more regular updates.

aceazzameen 3y ago

I've always wanted to try Lineage, but I've never owned a device supported by it. I tend to use Samsung. And for some reason, it only supports devices on models/years I've skipped and then stopped at the 10 series. Guess it wasn't meant to be.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
If memory serves, that's less of a Lineage problem and more of a Samsung problem; they tend to be hostile to user modification (locked bootloaders, etc.). Or at least, that was the case last time I looked at them.
- IntelMiner 3y ago
  Shout out to LG as well for sending their final phone to E-waste in the same way The LG Velvet is the only "flagship specification" phone I could get in Australia with 5G, a MicroSD card slot and a headphone jack! 3 weeks later LG killed it citing the "other big unnamed Korean electronics giant taking all our market share" and then later promising "2 years of updates guys, we promise!" At least if we could unlock the fucking bootloader we could port Lineage or Graphene or something to it. But (at least on EU derived models like mine) that never happened Reluctantly on a Pixel 7 Pro now
- abawany 3y ago
  I agree - older Samsung devices used to work well with LOS thanks to the unlockable bootloader. My last Samsung with LOS was a Galaxy Note 3 - it seems that Samsung devices after that became increasingly unfriendly to modifications. I haven't purchased Samsung devices since because their stock firmware is unpleasant (forced bixby, coerced signup with Samsung in addition to Google, uninstallable garbage, etc.)
- aceazzameen 3y ago
  True! But an example is I have a perfectly good Samsung Note 8 that isn't being used. But Lineage only supports Note 9 and 10.
npteljes 3y ago
It's a shame, because I really like the Samsung build quality. I have ran Lineage on the S4, my first Lineage phone, then S7, then S9 was my last. They were a joy to hold in hand, and, I felt, a testament on how good manufacturing got in my time. But, as many others, I wanted a specific OS to run, and that needed a specific phone, and so, I'm using GrapheneOS on a Pixel 7a now. It's a mixed bag, I definitely feel the step down in some respects, and the step up too at the same time.

cf100clunk 3y ago

Over the last decade or so I extended the useable, updateable life of several ASUS Android phones using LineageOS (née CyanogenMod). I'm now a GrapheneOS Pixel user, but I'd use LineageOS again on suitable devices as needed. If you're thinking of using LineageOS, make sure to look up MicroG to see if you can or cannot live without that additional set of apps and libraries: https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/

Ringz 3y ago

I would love to use an open system on every smartphone but: Can I use my banking software with all the security bells and whistles?

cf100clunk 3y ago
The phone itself might be configurable to do your banking, but sadly there may be problems related to their support of platforms: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39674827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39674827 So the answer is maybe?
phh 3y ago
> Can I use my banking software with all the security bells and whistles? Most custom ROMs(including official LineageOS) are as secure, usually even more, than OEM ROMs. There is just one threat model where it is weaker, which is the evil maid. But it is safer on all the other ones (the evil metro wifi, the evil video, the evil app...). (and personally I take the metro everyday, while taking my shower while I have a maid home just doesn't happen) As for whether banking apps will work, it's entirely dependant on whether your back is trying to serve their customers or not. Most banks I use work just fine on custom ROMs without hacks. But for instance Google Pay is skimming down on costs, and users pay the price for it.
- npteljes 3y ago
  From a usability standpoint, the reasons don't matter, many of the banking apps are unusable, full stop. This is something that someone has to reckon with, if they want to venture into the custom OS land.
- logicprog 3y ago
  > Most custom ROMs(including official LineageOS) are as secure, usually even more, than OEM ROM I definitely don't think that's the case. I'd check out the sections on microG and custom ROMs here: https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html (they're very knowledgeable, so usually factually accurate, but often frame or evaluate things in a very biased way IMHO, so be sure to evaluate the verifiable facts they state for yourself, and your own threat model). They're way more open to exploitation and far less secure than OEM ROMs, typically because of the way they have to pry open security stuff to get their various hacks to work. They are typically much better on privacy, but having your phone, from which you do all your communication and banking, and which has a dense cluster of sensors and transmitters that follow you wherever you go, be more open to exploitation by any random hacker or piece or malware seems like a bad idea to me.

ktosobcy 3y ago

Would be nice if all phones were supported and not locked (just like on pci can install Linux or Windows in version / distribution I choose)...

n8henrie 3y ago

My kingdom for a root / exploit for >=2020 kindle fires that would allow me to put lineageos on my kids' devices!

iAkashPaul 3y ago

OnePlus 6T with Android 14 is still working like a charm, this even beat out Nothing Phone 1 in getting the latest Android update

thatguy27 3y ago

Wish there was a phone where the camera on LineageOS is as good as the stock. On my Samsung Galaxy S7 using the camera on non-stock in painful (takes seconds to focus, when it focuses at all).