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You're not approaching this discussion in good faith. It's a war and you're going to find many example of civilians get hit. There are many more incidents than
by YZF 3y ago
You're not approaching this discussion in good faith. It's a war and you're going to find many example of civilians get hit. There are many more incidents than what you list and it proves nothing (Other than the media bias and your manipulation by it, assuming you started from a neutral position). The bit about the UN top court is just political bullshit and you know it. But if your moral authority comes from UN countries like China, Russia, Iran, or the many other authoritarian regimes that routinely commit crimes without anyone giving a damn then go for it.
200 people per day is also not a reasonable metric. Would you prefer a 100 people per day over twice the time? Why do you think this means anything? There were many days in the war in Ukraine where more people died per day under completely different conditions and ofcourse the total number of people killed in that war is significantly higher as well. War. Look at comparable campaigns like the Battle of Mosul. And yes, I already acknowledged many civilians died from bombs and Israel after Oct 7th is certainly concerned less about that than before Oct 7th, but still following the rules of war and not targeting civilians intentionally. If there are 40,000 combatants scattered in a densely populated area and in tunnels and they're being attacked from the air with hundreds of bombs/day what are the expected civilian casualties? Do you think Israel should have done nothing? Would anyone else? Do you think Israeli ground forces should have walked into the area without bombing it so they can get slaughtered/ambushed/blown up? Israel would like nothing better than not having had to have this war.
The number of dead people is terrible, and the fault for all this lies squarely on the Hamas. The total number and the breakdown of civilians/combatants is not really known at this point. I don't trust the numbers from Hamas because they are motivated to manipulate them as is evident by us having this discussion. But for sure many people have died which again is terrible. But reducing the argument to "Israel kills people Israel bad" where provably nobody else in this world would do any different (See 9/11 or the war against ISIS) and provably Hamas initiated this cycle of violence and the evidence (despite your list) is that Israel isn't waging this war in a way that deviates significantly from other wars is an emotional response, not a rational one. We know why people aren't having these responses to the conflict in Yemen where 400k people were killed, the conflict in Syria where IIRC one million people were killed, or many other bad things going on in the world, it's because the media is pumping photos of Gaza destruction 24/7 and couldn't give a damn about what's going on anywhere else (including Ukraine).
I am going to answer your first question in good faith despite you not reciprocating. It's based on my knowledge of human nature and similar war circumstances. Anyone fighting in these situations would have a very light trigger finger because the difference between you being dead and the enemy being dead depends on that. You just have no idea what's going on in the ground, the tactics being used by Hamas etc.
EDIT: there have also been many friendly fire incidents and lots of IDF soliders killed by IDF fire, and the famous incident of the hostages being killed by the IDF. This is again indicative of the "light trigger finger" (because otherwise it's you that's dead) and the tactics used by Hamas.
- CyberDildonics 3y agoYou're not approaching this discussion in good faith. I'm showing you real information from multiple worldwide news sources. You are writing huge paragraphs with no links to try to ignore a genocide in progress while repeating unsourced propaganda like "Gaza that want to rape, kill and mutiliate your citizens" When you kill 1% of a population you are imprisoning in four months, destroy their homes, hospitals, infrastructure and water sources then kill people trying to bring them aid, that's genocide. If this was reversed you would call it genocide. If it was happening anywhere else you would call it genocide. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_qaxLu-e6I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_qaxLu-e6I https://www.npr.org/2023/12/31/1222337109/the-israeli-army-attacked-a-u-n-aid-convoy-along-a-route-it-designated-safe https://www.npr.org/2023/12/31/1222337109/the-israeli-army-a... https://www.msf.org/attacks-humanitarian-workers-gaza-make-vital-assistance-nearly-impossible https://www.msf.org/attacks-humanitarian-workers-gaza-make-v... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/23/israeli-airstrike-kills-gaza-aid-worker-and-70-of-his-extended-family-un-says https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/23/israeli-airstr...
- YZF 3y agoIf Hamas on Oct 7th managed to kill 1% of Israel's population I would not call it genocide. Don't tell me what I'd do. If they killed 5% of Israel's population I would still not kill it genocide. I can give plenty of evidence to the genocidal intent of Hamas but that coupled with killing 1% of Israel's population is not a genocide. Your "unsourced propaganda" comment is offensive bullshit, but here are some sources: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/oct-7-sexual-violence-united-nations-reasonable-grounds-1.7133305 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/oct-7-sexual-violence-united-n... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181 https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-hamas-used-sexual-violence-on-october-7th https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-hamas-used-sexual... https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-at... https://theintercept.com/2023/12/24/feminism-sexual-violence-hamas-israel/ https://theintercept.com/2023/12/24/feminism-sexual-violence... https://www.irishtimes.com/world/uk/2024/02/03/hamas-raped-and-mutilated-israeli-women-like-garbage-in-october-7th-attack-campaign-launch-hears/ https://www.irishtimes.com/world/uk/2024/02/03/hamas-raped-a... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13005021/october-genocide-evidence-video-slaughtered-mutilated-hamas-terrorist-israel.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13005021/october-ge... https://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-sexual-violence-october-7-attacks-israel-nyt-2023-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-sexual-violence-octobe... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/08/world/middleeast/hamas-sexual-violence-un-israel.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/08/world/middleeast/hamas-se... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israeli-activists-say-world-has-ignored-oct-7-sexual-violence-against-women https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israeli-activists-say-worl... https://news.sky.com/story/womens-genitals-systemically-mutilated-in-hamas-attack-says-israeli-reservist-who-dealt-with-bodies-13060959 https://news.sky.com/story/womens-genitals-systemically-muti... https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/12/witnesses-confirm-rape-beheadings-systematic-genital-mutilation-by-hamas/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/12/witnesses-confirm-rap... https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/12/29/horrific-new-evidence-revealed-hamas-systematic-sexual-violence-oct-7/ https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/12/29/horrific-new-evidence-... https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sj62yy7na https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sj62yy7na https://nationwideradiojm.com/bbc-hamas-raped-mutilated-israeli-women-children-on-october-7/ https://nationwideradiojm.com/bbc-hamas-raped-mutilated-isra... https://oct7map.com/women https://oct7map.com/women https://themedialine.org/headlines/special-report-on-deliberate-rape-and-mutilation-of-civilians-by-hamas-backed-by-first-lady-herzog/ https://themedialine.org/headlines/special-report-on-deliber... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/23/israel-shows-footage-of-hamas-killings-to-counter-denial-of-atrocities https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/23/israel-shows-f...