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Please don't tell me what is and is not the case for myself, I clearly said what is the case for me and maybe instead of trying to explain why I supposedly feel

Please don't tell me what is and is not the case for myself, I clearly said what is the case for me and maybe instead of trying to explain why I supposedly feel differently you actually ask why those platforms are different. I use my iPhone and Mac very differently. All of the apps on my Mac were a single purchase, I don't need to worry about dark patterns there because I just own what I have. The mobile market is inherently different, largely thanks to developers pushing alternative forms of ownership. Instead of being able to just buy it, most of the apps on my iPhone are subscription based. Meaning I am more at the mercy of dark patterns by the developers.

littlestymaar 3y ago
> I clearly said what is the case for me You said it, yes. That means that's what you now believe. Not that it's necessarily true. > All of the apps on my Mac were a single purchase, I don't need to worry about dark patterns there because I just own what I have. Are you using a firewall to block software updates? If not, you're still within reach of the developer and they can pull the rug under your feet. > Meaning I am more at the mercy of dark patterns by the developers. The developer cannot force you to move out if the apple app store in the first place! (Which is far from bulletproof when it comes to dark patterns anyway). If you want to stay in the safe corner of the web, just keep buying through the Apple App store! Like almost everyone does with the Android playstore.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  It is incredibly condescending that when I try to explain why I chose something that you try to tell me it isn't why I chose it. It is also incredibly hypocritical that here we are complaining about being at the mercy of the choices that Apple makes and you are trying to tell me how I actually feel. This boils down to the platforms being different. The way that many apps are monetized on Mac (and Windows) is different to how things are monetized on mobile devices. So please stop telling me how I feel and why I made certain decisions. I think I know why I chose something and not you.
  - littlestymaar 3y ago
    You know what's incredible? For years Apple fans on this forum have been making arguments about why they buy Apple stuff (“better UX”, “better hardware”, “better privacy”, “better performance ”, etc.), and all those years, none of you ever mentioned “I like being restricted” as a reason for their purchase. Now fast forward a few years and Apple spinning tons of FUD about user security related to the app store monopoly and now a significant part of you guys are reusing the talking point. Definitely not what to expect from psyop, right? I really whished people were talked in school how propaganda and psychological operations work, how to recognize them and how to defend themselves, like with practical exercise and all, it's becoming a critical survival skill in modern societies… I'm not blaming you to succumb to this kind of things, smarter people did before and it's efficient enough to make people kill themselves “for the cause/the motherland”, but that's terrifying to see it in action coming from corporations.
    - nerdjon 3y ago
      > none of you ever mentioned “I like being restricted” as a reason for their purchase. Here is the thing, I don't feel like I am being restricted. I never said the words I like being restricted. Want to know who is? The developers... the people pushing for this. THAT is what I am talking about, please go re-read what I have written. Which for the record I think is a good thing, we know many companies will take advantage of their users if given the option. And before you jump in "well apple is taking advantage of you", I bought their device knowing full well what our relationship was. I even mentioned that I think Apple should open up the store on their restrictions on porn apps and things like that. But that is also a separate discussion. The condescending attitude is making you read the wrong thing and it's frankly kinda tiring. Edit: And yes, people have talked about the restrictions put on developers on the App Store being a positive for Users... A lot over the years. Especially when it comes to billing.
      - littlestymaar 3y ago
        > Here is the thing, I don't feel like I am being restricted. I never said the words I like being restricted. Want to know who is? The developers... the people pushing for this. You can spin it again and again, it won't change the facts: it's the user that are being restricted. Sure it has the side effect of restricting the developers, because they can't reach the restricted user without Apple giving them access. But it's only a pretty recent side effect, when Apple decided to pivot their branding on “privacy”: before that Facebook and al. spent almost a decade harvesting user data for free on iPhone without any complaints from Apple. Oh, and this is not just me making the argument: that's actually European Commission's argument too. And the fact is, EC won the case and Apple is caving. And if you need some help grasping this fact, you can think about how the European regulation is not about freedom for European developers (targeting every user in the world) but about freedom for European users no matter where the developer comes from.

littlestymaar 3y ago

> I clearly said what is the case for me You said it, yes. That means that's what you now believe. Not that it's necessarily true. > All of the apps on my Mac were a single purchase, I don't need to worry about dark patterns there because I just own what I have. Are you using a firewall to block software updates? If not, you're still within reach of the developer and they can pull the rug under your feet. > Meaning I am more at the mercy of dark patterns by the developers. The developer cannot force you to move out if the apple app store in the first place! (Which is far from bulletproof when it comes to dark patterns anyway). If you want to stay in the safe corner of the web, just keep buying through the Apple App store! Like almost everyone does with the Android playstore.

nerdjon 3y ago
It is incredibly condescending that when I try to explain why I chose something that you try to tell me it isn't why I chose it. It is also incredibly hypocritical that here we are complaining about being at the mercy of the choices that Apple makes and you are trying to tell me how I actually feel. This boils down to the platforms being different. The way that many apps are monetized on Mac (and Windows) is different to how things are monetized on mobile devices. So please stop telling me how I feel and why I made certain decisions. I think I know why I chose something and not you.
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  You know what's incredible? For years Apple fans on this forum have been making arguments about why they buy Apple stuff (“better UX”, “better hardware”, “better privacy”, “better performance ”, etc.), and all those years, none of you ever mentioned “I like being restricted” as a reason for their purchase. Now fast forward a few years and Apple spinning tons of FUD about user security related to the app store monopoly and now a significant part of you guys are reusing the talking point. Definitely not what to expect from psyop, right? I really whished people were talked in school how propaganda and psychological operations work, how to recognize them and how to defend themselves, like with practical exercise and all, it's becoming a critical survival skill in modern societies… I'm not blaming you to succumb to this kind of things, smarter people did before and it's efficient enough to make people kill themselves “for the cause/the motherland”, but that's terrifying to see it in action coming from corporations.
  - nerdjon 3y ago
    > none of you ever mentioned “I like being restricted” as a reason for their purchase. Here is the thing, I don't feel like I am being restricted. I never said the words I like being restricted. Want to know who is? The developers... the people pushing for this. THAT is what I am talking about, please go re-read what I have written. Which for the record I think is a good thing, we know many companies will take advantage of their users if given the option. And before you jump in "well apple is taking advantage of you", I bought their device knowing full well what our relationship was. I even mentioned that I think Apple should open up the store on their restrictions on porn apps and things like that. But that is also a separate discussion. The condescending attitude is making you read the wrong thing and it's frankly kinda tiring. Edit: And yes, people have talked about the restrictions put on developers on the App Store being a positive for Users... A lot over the years. Especially when it comes to billing.
    - littlestymaar 3y ago
      > Here is the thing, I don't feel like I am being restricted. I never said the words I like being restricted. Want to know who is? The developers... the people pushing for this. You can spin it again and again, it won't change the facts: it's the user that are being restricted. Sure it has the side effect of restricting the developers, because they can't reach the restricted user without Apple giving them access. But it's only a pretty recent side effect, when Apple decided to pivot their branding on “privacy”: before that Facebook and al. spent almost a decade harvesting user data for free on iPhone without any complaints from Apple. Oh, and this is not just me making the argument: that's actually European Commission's argument too. And the fact is, EC won the case and Apple is caving. And if you need some help grasping this fact, you can think about how the European regulation is not about freedom for European developers (targeting every user in the world) but about freedom for European users no matter where the developer comes from.