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Leave it to HN to spend checks 57% of the toplevel comments debating whether the word "lie" in the term "lie to children" is in fact literally correct. My blee
by javawizard 3y ago
Leave it to HN to spend checks 57% of the toplevel comments debating whether the word "lie" in the term "lie to children" is in fact literally correct.
My bleeding linguistic descriptivist heart dies a little every time I walk into a debate like this. Does it really matter what we call it, as long as we can all agree on what it is we're talking about? At which point we can have insightful debate about whether the concept to which the term refers is a helpful, or unhelpful, one to engage in.
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Personally I think it is; as another commenter already mentioned, "all models are wrong; some are useful". Any oversimplification of a real-world concept is bound to fall down at some point, and lots of oversimplifications are useful right up to that point.
Many times as a kid I asked for an explanation of a real-world phenomenon from a grown-up and received something that had way too much detail or nuance to hold my attention span, or for me to comprehend at the time. Usually I dropped pursuit of whatever had led me to ask the question in the first place, and as a result it would take years for me to accomplish something I could have accomplished much earlier.
Other times I asked for an explanation and received one that was oversimplified but perfect for what I needed, and was able to stay focused on, at that point in my life. Those were golden moments; more often than not they resulted in leaps in my education, and I was later able to "correct" the explanation I'd received once I ran up against its limitations.
And it's not just children; many adults who aren't subject matter experts get overwhelmed if you try to present things in a way that's as technically correct as possible. I honestly believe the ability to simplify to exactly the level one's conversant needs for their situation is one of the most underrated skills on the planet.
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(There's an undeniable irony to how long this comment is. Ah well; to paraphrase Mark Twain, if I'd had time I would have written a shorter comment.)
- genman 3y ago> Leave it to HN to spend checks 57% of the toplevel comments debating whether the word "lie" in the term "lie to children" is in fact literally correct. And it is not and it is hurting the debate and is causing secondary problems like it will hurt the scientific world view in general because they equate actual lies like made up stories created to deceive masses with scientific simplifications.
- javawizard 3y agoDoes it though? I really don't know. On what observations or scientific evidence are you basing your statement?
- genman 3y agoI have personally observed this kind of reasoning that (out of ignorance) equates arguments with very different importance. Being able to say that "scientists lie to the children" could easily become a serious argument for them.
- jareklupinski 3y ago> 57% of the toplevel comments debating whether the word "lie" in the term "lie to children" is in fact literally correct. > "all models are wrong; some are useful" i was going to say perhaps language is a model of our mind-state, but my brain decided to run off somewhere with Large Language Models...
- kthejoker2 3y agoThat was Pascal not Twain. https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Lettres_Provinciales https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Lettres_Provinciales > The present letter is a very long one, simply because I had no leisure to make it shorter.