6 ms·

Apple's hysterics over new EU antitrust law have led to two climbdowns already

91 points by mdhb 3y ago

ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
Apple looks kinda stifled at the moment. But in the end, it will probably keep growing. It reminds me of Microsoft in the early 00s. A slow giant that has a hard time innovating. But nonetheless, Microsoft more than 10xed their value since then. There is just too much good stuff constantly coming up in the world of software. Software constantly becomes more and more valuable. A computer still costs less than a car. But having a superhuman AI computer at your service will have so much more value to people that this might change. Much tailwind ahead for computer makers. And at the moment, there are only two mobile computer makers. Apple and Google. Much tailwind ahead for these two companies. Unless a company comes up with a new mobile computing solution which catches Apple and Google off guard. But I don't see that on the horizon yet.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  Microsoft has to stop behaving like Microsoft to get where they are. Instead of trying to run through show, Microsoft got ahead by behaving well & treating developers well. Making Windows a good enough place to develop from, making Azure a good enough cloud: none of these look like the old Microsoft. Apple doesn't seem to a single play-nice-with-anyone bone in their body. They are fighting tooth & nail for every scrap of control they can keep, doing everything in their power to burn every bridge they can (ending opengl support, ignoring Vulkan). Apple still will hold enormous power for the foreseeable, undoubtedly, but I don't see much parallel to Microsoft. I don't see any redemption ark in progress.
  - rapsey 3y ago
    MS and Apple are fundamentally different companies. Apple is the king of consumer products, MS is the king of B2B. Consumer product companies need to fight for every scrap, B2B need relationships.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Are laptops not mobile?
  - smt88 3y ago
    No, not the way anyone means "mobile" when saying "mobile devices".
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      Most people would think "computer" means laptop, or something along those lines, rather than their phone.
  - ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
    Pick a random time, pick a random person, what are the chances they have a laptop with them? What are the chances they have a phone with them?
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    It depends on what we agree for the definition of mobile. If by mobile you mean transportable, yes they are. But sometimes they are less convenient than some smaller desktop devices[1] If by mobile you mean they can be used in anywhere, you can say more or less. Yes you can use them on your lap, or even very uncomfortably standing up with the laptop in your hand but you are unlikely to do so for more than a few seconds. Apart from students and business travelers, most laptops are just moved from the living room to the kitchen, a desk to a meeting room while powered on, and only transported from home to office. If by mobile you mean you can comfortably use them anywhere on the go, without too much hassle, well they aren't as mobile as smartphones or even tablets. If you look at real estate agents, they mostly only carry their smartphones or a tablet if they want a bigger screen. Very rarely will they pull a macbook from a bag to show you something. When an executive in my company is joining a videocall while parked in his car, he usually use his mobile phone because they find it less convenient to open a laptop, trying to cram it somewhere on the dashboard and share their mobile connection. [1] Even as "transportable" items laptops are sometimes not the best proposition. When I was still working in an office and commuting by bike, I asked my IT department if I could switch from my company issued laptop to a much smaller and less fragile mini barebones computer like the Gigabyte Brix or an intel NUC. They fit more easily in something as simple as a large handlebar bag and can be more easily protected from the elements.
- kelthuzad 3y ago
  As AI gets progressively more competent, I would assume that it will be much easier for smaller groups of people to come together and give entrenched industry giants a hard time with fierce new competition. Why would otherwise Apple and co already choose lawfare and bad faith tactics to prevent anyone from competing with them on a level playing field?
  - onion2k 3y ago
    Why would otherwise Apple and co already choose lawfare and bad faith tactics to prevent anyone from competing with them on a level playing field? Bad faith tactics from tech companies aren't a new thing, and certainly aren't a response to AI. There a re plenty of examples for Apple here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_I.... And if you look at Microsoft there's stuff going back to the 80s.
    - kelthuzad 3y ago
      >Bad faith tactics from tech companies aren't a new thing, and certainly aren't a response to AI. I neither insinuated their bad faith tactics to be a response to AI nor did I state that they are new, I made a prediction as response to OP's prediction and I used their current behavior as an indicator for their future behavior.
  - anonzzzies 3y ago
    > give entrenched industry giants a hard time with fierce new competition. Once AI reaches that level, it won’t be a smaller group coming together. The big corps will be there first with more money to get the AIs to come up with a million plans per day and execute a bunch of them a lot faster than small groups can. Currently no one really knows what to do except cook up snake oil, but if indeed AI becomes more competent, the big corps will unfortunately own it and use it at scale.
    - kelthuzad 3y ago
      That's definitely a plausible prediction, but since so many people are aware of this, my hope is that we can at least prevent some of their more nefarious lawfare & lobbying such that we make and keep open-source AI competitive.
- chucke1992 3y ago
  The thing with Microsoft is that they used their classic approach - going the second after the innovator with B2B flavor. Like AWS was the first, but Microsoft went second and used B2B injection. Same with AI - OpenAI was the first, but Microsoft went second and used B2B injection. Even with Office 365 it was basically the same - they injected cloud into B2B. They still are notoriously bad with consumer market though. I think Windows 95 was a nice combo of consumer and B2B success.
  - realusername 3y ago
    It also worked with Teams, the software itself is hot trash and not up to the competitors... but it's pushed in the enterprise offering so it worked. The enterprise side of Microsoft is a wonderful selling machine.
    - EraYaN 3y ago
      And since Teams' launch the competitors have also gone full trash, so it all works out for MS. Maybe Hey/Basecamp's new idea ends up being something, but for now it's all kinda clunky Electron apps.
      - piva00 3y ago
        Slack's experience is far, far away from perfect and it manages, at the same time, to be far, far better than whatever Teams offers. Teams is an absolute heap of burning shit, the whole experience is so terrible that what impresses me the most is that it's a sellable product. It's a prime example of how having a good product is not necessary for sales when your sales strategy is a well-oiled machine with deep penetration in the enterprise market.
        chucke1992 3y ago
        Teams provided extremely good video conferences which was crucial in COVID world and was something that allowed Zoom to go to the moon. Slack was behind in that regard and even now their video offerings are not good or convenient to use at all.
- jillesvangurp 3y ago
  > And at the moment, there are only two mobile computer makers. Apple and Google. Who both heavily depend on Asian manufacturers that are also producing phones without either Apple's or Google's software bundled for their domestic market. E.g. Huawei is doing pretty well lately and they are no longer getting their software from Google. The operating system moat that Apple and Google enjoy is a lot weaker than the current market suggests. Just because things haven't changed for a while doesn't mean they won't eventually change. A little nudging from judges might force this market to be more open.
  - ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
    Good point. What do the Huawei phones use for maps and search?
    - jillesvangurp 3y ago
      This apparently: https://consumer.huawei.com/en/mobileservices/petalmaps/ https://consumer.huawei.com/en/mobileservices/petalmaps/ I wonder where they license their maps ...
      - ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
        Interesting. That makes Google's moat seem smaller than I thought. Do you know what they use for search?
        jillesvangurp 3y ago
        https://consumer.huawei.com/uk/mobileservices/petalsearch/ https://consumer.huawei.com/uk/mobileservices/petalsearch/ Looks like they did something in house for that as well. Amazon would have the same issues with the Kindle Fire. I think they license Here maps. Not sure if they use Google or Bing.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        3y ago
- card_zero 3y ago
  > tailwind ahead This concept is confusing. I guess the headwind will be behind them, too. Wait, so they've completely reversed direction? This begins to sound good.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    Tailwind (from behind) is easier to sail in, than headwind (from the front). "Ahead" means the wind will blow from behind somewhere in front of you, where you are going.
matt3210 3y ago
Myself with AAPL stock: this is bad Myself as a tech enthusiast: this is good
- niyikiza 3y ago
  Felt similarly back in the days when I bought my first house but had to buy another one (because reasons): - Property owner: can house prices just go up and rise my equity - Prospect house buyer: can house prices just stay sane until I buy again
- pointlessone 3y ago
  This is not happening to Apple. Apple does it to themselves. They have every opportunity not to make it as painful for them as it is. Android already allows alternative browsers and app stores. It might not be quite up to DMA but it hasn’t ruined Google/Android. It won’t ruin Apple either. They could’ve spun it as a big win same that did with the switch to USB-C. They could’ve complied quietly and it would disappear from news in a week. They make it a drama worth updating on every other day.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    Has anyone ever demanded alternative app stores for Android? Besides whatever is out there for jailbroken devices... Cydia it was? Don't think so because you can sideload. Alternative app stores are a solution looking for a problem.
    - surgical_fire 3y ago
      > Has anyone ever demanded alternative app stores for Android? There's no need to demand. It has always been possible to install alternative app stores on Android.
    - seba_dos1 3y ago
      F-Droid is quite significant on Android.
    - pointlessone 3y ago
chucke1992 3y ago
I am not sure why both Apple and Google looked at Microsoft of late 90s and decided to behave the same way.
- smt88 3y ago
  When companies can't grow by competing, they monopolize, buy govt officiala, and acquire competitors. Apple isn't the best in any category anymore, so they have to cheat.
  - askonomm 3y ago
    Not the best in _any_ category? Really? Not in a single one? Do you have any evidence for this?
    - rapsey 3y ago
      At least when it comes to phones Samsung phones are actually better. Better screens, better camera. But Apple has the branding and other options are frowned upon. At least in the US, outside Android is the leader.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        As an Android user, yes Samsung has the superior HW like display and stuff, but Apple leads on SW, simplicity and ecosystem. If you already own a Mac computer then the choice is a slam dunk in favor of buying an Apple phone as well. There's no 1:1 equivalent ecosystem for PC/Android even though apps that replicate certain functions of the ecosystem exist: KDE Connect, Microsoft PhoneLink, Samsung whatever, they can never match what Apple does since neither of them owns the full SW & HW stack across phones and laptops plus the adjacent services like Music, video streaming, etc. Then there's the network lock-in effect of iMessage, in the US at least. Samsung's HW and Android implementation and skin, is in many ways superior to Google's Pixel but the overall packaged is hammered thanks to their bloat trying to replace Google's apps with their own offers to replicate Apple's ecosystem but with Samsung apps instead of Google and it ends up with a confusing duplicate mess. Observe: Google Chrome and Samsung Browser, Google Wallet and Samsung Pay, Google Keep and Samsung Notes, Google Drive and Samsung Cloud, Gmail and Samsung Mail, Google Photos and Samsung Gallery, etc. Oh, and the "best" part is, the functionality of certain Samsung apps like Pay is region locked for some reason, so in some EU countries like Germany you can end up with Pay refusing to work if you didn't buy it locally(even though this is the EU so region shouldn't matter). So if you buy your Samsung phone online from some small retailer running a sale you need to make sure the retailer is selling the right SKU for your region otherwise you can end up with Pay refusing to work with some obscure error. Thanks Samsung, great UX. The EU should look into this and maybe fine them as well.
usrbinbash 3y ago
Seeing big tech companies find out the hard way that the EU does, in fact, mean business when it comes up with a law, never gets old.
- AwaAwa 3y ago
  Too many tech companies think their US approach of 'litigate to mitigate' applies to the EU et al.
shmerl 3y ago
Good to see competition law working for a change. Now Apple should be forced to stop banning competing browsers proper.
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
The third climbdown will be this "outside of the EU for a month" nonsense. Has Apple not heard the expression "You can't fight City Hall"?
- rekoil 3y ago
  Or the "Core Technology Fee".
Havoc 3y ago
And Microsoft and Google both stopped their extortionate egress fees thanks to EU Turns out one does not need to let big tech do whatever they want at others expense after all
- geraldhh 3y ago
  arguably, money was needed to make it big tech in the first place
- CodesInChaos 3y ago
  > And Microsoft and Google both stopped their extortionate egress fees thanks to EU Do you have a source? I only read articles about them stopping these egress fees if you terminate your account shortly afterwards. That kind of big-bang migration is difficult to pull off. And doesn't address the main problem with extortionate egress fees, that you can't use different providers for different services while transferring large amounts of data between them.
kryptiskt 3y ago
I wonder if the difference in behavior is because of the companies execs have a different self-image. It's not like Google's and Microsoft's like the EU regulations, they will try to undermine them and lobby against them, but they think of themselves as pragmatic players of a game of profit, so when the rules are in place they adapt and see what angles they can play and what advantages they can extract from the new setup. My idea here is that Apple's execs have drunk the Kool-aid and actually think that they are benevolent overlords who only does what's best for their users, and the profit nothing but their just reward. And when they meet an even more powerful entity that tells them what to do, they hate it but all they can do is lash out in petty ways.
- rickdeckard 3y ago
  I also haven't seen Google/Microsoft "weaponizing" their customers against regulation in such an aggressive way as Apple does. But then again, I also haven't seen so many citizens willingly stepping up to defend a trillion dollar company against mere investigations to ensure fair competition...

91 points by mdhb 3y ago

Apple looks kinda stifled at the moment. But in the end, it will probably keep growing. It reminds me of Microsoft in the early 00s. A slow giant that has a hard time innovating. But nonetheless, Microsoft more than 10xed their value since then. There is just too much good stuff constantly coming up in the world of software. Software constantly becomes more and more valuable. A computer still costs less than a car. But having a superhuman AI computer at your service will have so much more value to people that this might change. Much tailwind ahead for computer makers. And at the moment, there are only two mobile computer makers. Apple and Google. Much tailwind ahead for these two companies. Unless a company comes up with a new mobile computing solution which catches Apple and Google off guard. But I don't see that on the horizon yet.

jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Microsoft has to stop behaving like Microsoft to get where they are. Instead of trying to run through show, Microsoft got ahead by behaving well & treating developers well. Making Windows a good enough place to develop from, making Azure a good enough cloud: none of these look like the old Microsoft. Apple doesn't seem to a single play-nice-with-anyone bone in their body. They are fighting tooth & nail for every scrap of control they can keep, doing everything in their power to burn every bridge they can (ending opengl support, ignoring Vulkan). Apple still will hold enormous power for the foreseeable, undoubtedly, but I don't see much parallel to Microsoft. I don't see any redemption ark in progress.
- rapsey 3y ago
  MS and Apple are fundamentally different companies. Apple is the king of consumer products, MS is the king of B2B. Consumer product companies need to fight for every scrap, B2B need relationships.
Dalewyn 3y ago
Are laptops not mobile?
- smt88 3y ago
  No, not the way anyone means "mobile" when saying "mobile devices".
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    Most people would think "computer" means laptop, or something along those lines, rather than their phone.
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
  Pick a random time, pick a random person, what are the chances they have a laptop with them? What are the chances they have a phone with them?
- prmoustache 3y ago
  It depends on what we agree for the definition of mobile. If by mobile you mean transportable, yes they are. But sometimes they are less convenient than some smaller desktop devices[1] If by mobile you mean they can be used in anywhere, you can say more or less. Yes you can use them on your lap, or even very uncomfortably standing up with the laptop in your hand but you are unlikely to do so for more than a few seconds. Apart from students and business travelers, most laptops are just moved from the living room to the kitchen, a desk to a meeting room while powered on, and only transported from home to office. If by mobile you mean you can comfortably use them anywhere on the go, without too much hassle, well they aren't as mobile as smartphones or even tablets. If you look at real estate agents, they mostly only carry their smartphones or a tablet if they want a bigger screen. Very rarely will they pull a macbook from a bag to show you something. When an executive in my company is joining a videocall while parked in his car, he usually use his mobile phone because they find it less convenient to open a laptop, trying to cram it somewhere on the dashboard and share their mobile connection. [1] Even as "transportable" items laptops are sometimes not the best proposition. When I was still working in an office and commuting by bike, I asked my IT department if I could switch from my company issued laptop to a much smaller and less fragile mini barebones computer like the Gigabyte Brix or an intel NUC. They fit more easily in something as simple as a large handlebar bag and can be more easily protected from the elements.
kelthuzad 3y ago
As AI gets progressively more competent, I would assume that it will be much easier for smaller groups of people to come together and give entrenched industry giants a hard time with fierce new competition. Why would otherwise Apple and co already choose lawfare and bad faith tactics to prevent anyone from competing with them on a level playing field?
- onion2k 3y ago
  Why would otherwise Apple and co already choose lawfare and bad faith tactics to prevent anyone from competing with them on a level playing field? Bad faith tactics from tech companies aren't a new thing, and certainly aren't a response to AI. There a re plenty of examples for Apple here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_I.... And if you look at Microsoft there's stuff going back to the 80s.
  - kelthuzad 3y ago
    >Bad faith tactics from tech companies aren't a new thing, and certainly aren't a response to AI. I neither insinuated their bad faith tactics to be a response to AI nor did I state that they are new, I made a prediction as response to OP's prediction and I used their current behavior as an indicator for their future behavior.
- anonzzzies 3y ago
  > give entrenched industry giants a hard time with fierce new competition. Once AI reaches that level, it won’t be a smaller group coming together. The big corps will be there first with more money to get the AIs to come up with a million plans per day and execute a bunch of them a lot faster than small groups can. Currently no one really knows what to do except cook up snake oil, but if indeed AI becomes more competent, the big corps will unfortunately own it and use it at scale.
  - kelthuzad 3y ago
    That's definitely a plausible prediction, but since so many people are aware of this, my hope is that we can at least prevent some of their more nefarious lawfare & lobbying such that we make and keep open-source AI competitive.
chucke1992 3y ago
The thing with Microsoft is that they used their classic approach - going the second after the innovator with B2B flavor. Like AWS was the first, but Microsoft went second and used B2B injection. Same with AI - OpenAI was the first, but Microsoft went second and used B2B injection. Even with Office 365 it was basically the same - they injected cloud into B2B. They still are notoriously bad with consumer market though. I think Windows 95 was a nice combo of consumer and B2B success.
- realusername 3y ago
  It also worked with Teams, the software itself is hot trash and not up to the competitors... but it's pushed in the enterprise offering so it worked. The enterprise side of Microsoft is a wonderful selling machine.
  - EraYaN 3y ago
    And since Teams' launch the competitors have also gone full trash, so it all works out for MS. Maybe Hey/Basecamp's new idea ends up being something, but for now it's all kinda clunky Electron apps.
    - piva00 3y ago
      Slack's experience is far, far away from perfect and it manages, at the same time, to be far, far better than whatever Teams offers. Teams is an absolute heap of burning shit, the whole experience is so terrible that what impresses me the most is that it's a sellable product. It's a prime example of how having a good product is not necessary for sales when your sales strategy is a well-oiled machine with deep penetration in the enterprise market.
      - chucke1992 3y ago
        Teams provided extremely good video conferences which was crucial in COVID world and was something that allowed Zoom to go to the moon. Slack was behind in that regard and even now their video offerings are not good or convenient to use at all.
jillesvangurp 3y ago
> And at the moment, there are only two mobile computer makers. Apple and Google. Who both heavily depend on Asian manufacturers that are also producing phones without either Apple's or Google's software bundled for their domestic market. E.g. Huawei is doing pretty well lately and they are no longer getting their software from Google. The operating system moat that Apple and Google enjoy is a lot weaker than the current market suggests. Just because things haven't changed for a while doesn't mean they won't eventually change. A little nudging from judges might force this market to be more open.
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
  Good point. What do the Huawei phones use for maps and search?
  - jillesvangurp 3y ago
    This apparently: https://consumer.huawei.com/en/mobileservices/petalmaps/ https://consumer.huawei.com/en/mobileservices/petalmaps/ I wonder where they license their maps ...
    - ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
      Interesting. That makes Google's moat seem smaller than I thought. Do you know what they use for search?
      - jillesvangurp 3y ago
        https://consumer.huawei.com/uk/mobileservices/petalsearch/ https://consumer.huawei.com/uk/mobileservices/petalsearch/ Looks like they did something in house for that as well. Amazon would have the same issues with the Kindle Fire. I think they license Here maps. Not sure if they use Google or Bing.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - 3y ago
card_zero 3y ago
> tailwind ahead This concept is confusing. I guess the headwind will be behind them, too. Wait, so they've completely reversed direction? This begins to sound good.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  Tailwind (from behind) is easier to sail in, than headwind (from the front). "Ahead" means the wind will blow from behind somewhere in front of you, where you are going.

matt3210 3y ago

Myself with AAPL stock: this is bad Myself as a tech enthusiast: this is good

niyikiza 3y ago
Felt similarly back in the days when I bought my first house but had to buy another one (because reasons): - Property owner: can house prices just go up and rise my equity - Prospect house buyer: can house prices just stay sane until I buy again
pointlessone 3y ago
This is not happening to Apple. Apple does it to themselves. They have every opportunity not to make it as painful for them as it is. Android already allows alternative browsers and app stores. It might not be quite up to DMA but it hasn’t ruined Google/Android. It won’t ruin Apple either. They could’ve spun it as a big win same that did with the switch to USB-C. They could’ve complied quietly and it would disappear from news in a week. They make it a drama worth updating on every other day.
- nottorp 3y ago
  Has anyone ever demanded alternative app stores for Android? Besides whatever is out there for jailbroken devices... Cydia it was? Don't think so because you can sideload. Alternative app stores are a solution looking for a problem.
  - surgical_fire 3y ago
    > Has anyone ever demanded alternative app stores for Android? There's no need to demand. It has always been possible to install alternative app stores on Android.
  - seba_dos1 3y ago
    F-Droid is quite significant on Android.
  - pointlessone 3y ago

chucke1992 3y ago

I am not sure why both Apple and Google looked at Microsoft of late 90s and decided to behave the same way.

smt88 3y ago
When companies can't grow by competing, they monopolize, buy govt officiala, and acquire competitors. Apple isn't the best in any category anymore, so they have to cheat.
- askonomm 3y ago
  Not the best in _any_ category? Really? Not in a single one? Do you have any evidence for this?
  - rapsey 3y ago
    At least when it comes to phones Samsung phones are actually better. Better screens, better camera. But Apple has the branding and other options are frowned upon. At least in the US, outside Android is the leader.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      As an Android user, yes Samsung has the superior HW like display and stuff, but Apple leads on SW, simplicity and ecosystem. If you already own a Mac computer then the choice is a slam dunk in favor of buying an Apple phone as well. There's no 1:1 equivalent ecosystem for PC/Android even though apps that replicate certain functions of the ecosystem exist: KDE Connect, Microsoft PhoneLink, Samsung whatever, they can never match what Apple does since neither of them owns the full SW & HW stack across phones and laptops plus the adjacent services like Music, video streaming, etc. Then there's the network lock-in effect of iMessage, in the US at least. Samsung's HW and Android implementation and skin, is in many ways superior to Google's Pixel but the overall packaged is hammered thanks to their bloat trying to replace Google's apps with their own offers to replicate Apple's ecosystem but with Samsung apps instead of Google and it ends up with a confusing duplicate mess. Observe: Google Chrome and Samsung Browser, Google Wallet and Samsung Pay, Google Keep and Samsung Notes, Google Drive and Samsung Cloud, Gmail and Samsung Mail, Google Photos and Samsung Gallery, etc. Oh, and the "best" part is, the functionality of certain Samsung apps like Pay is region locked for some reason, so in some EU countries like Germany you can end up with Pay refusing to work if you didn't buy it locally(even though this is the EU so region shouldn't matter). So if you buy your Samsung phone online from some small retailer running a sale you need to make sure the retailer is selling the right SKU for your region otherwise you can end up with Pay refusing to work with some obscure error. Thanks Samsung, great UX. The EU should look into this and maybe fine them as well.

usrbinbash 3y ago

Seeing big tech companies find out the hard way that the EU does, in fact, mean business when it comes up with a law, never gets old.

AwaAwa 3y ago
Too many tech companies think their US approach of 'litigate to mitigate' applies to the EU et al.

shmerl 3y ago

Good to see competition law working for a change. Now Apple should be forced to stop banning competing browsers proper.

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago

The third climbdown will be this "outside of the EU for a month" nonsense. Has Apple not heard the expression "You can't fight City Hall"?

rekoil 3y ago
Or the "Core Technology Fee".

Havoc 3y ago

And Microsoft and Google both stopped their extortionate egress fees thanks to EU Turns out one does not need to let big tech do whatever they want at others expense after all

geraldhh 3y ago
arguably, money was needed to make it big tech in the first place
CodesInChaos 3y ago
> And Microsoft and Google both stopped their extortionate egress fees thanks to EU Do you have a source? I only read articles about them stopping these egress fees if you terminate your account shortly afterwards. That kind of big-bang migration is difficult to pull off. And doesn't address the main problem with extortionate egress fees, that you can't use different providers for different services while transferring large amounts of data between them.

kryptiskt 3y ago

I wonder if the difference in behavior is because of the companies execs have a different self-image. It's not like Google's and Microsoft's like the EU regulations, they will try to undermine them and lobby against them, but they think of themselves as pragmatic players of a game of profit, so when the rules are in place they adapt and see what angles they can play and what advantages they can extract from the new setup. My idea here is that Apple's execs have drunk the Kool-aid and actually think that they are benevolent overlords who only does what's best for their users, and the profit nothing but their just reward. And when they meet an even more powerful entity that tells them what to do, they hate it but all they can do is lash out in petty ways.

rickdeckard 3y ago
I also haven't seen Google/Microsoft "weaponizing" their customers against regulation in such an aggressive way as Apple does. But then again, I also haven't seen so many citizens willingly stepping up to defend a trillion dollar company against mere investigations to ensure fair competition...