4 ms·

He knows what they mean. It's the age old programmer forum response where everyone knows what the OP meant when they were asking but some pedant with a neurolog

He knows what they mean. It's the age old programmer forum response where everyone knows what the OP meant when they were asking but some pedant with a neurological problem hijacks the thread. Ignore him.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bsder 3y ago
Maybe, but the one I generally flag is "cold cuts". Humans have been curing meat forever. The question is whether "cured meat" is an issue or whether "modern curing of meat" is the problem. When you ordered a ham from my old local meat market, it was a hunk of freshly butchered pig that was brined, cured and smoked. If it had any sugar, I sure couldn't taste it. You took it home, put it in the oven for a couple hours, and sliced it. It tasted wonderful by itself or with just a bit of fresh horseradish. That ham is quite a lot different in terms of ingredients from the "sliced ham" you will get from your local grocery deli as a "cold cut".
- 2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
  While the definition of different “processed foods” leaves a lot to be desired, there’s always going to be foods that are at the edge of one definition. Further attempts to refine the definition also bumps up against pendants like yourself regardless of what definition they use. But just like porn, we all know what definitely falls into one category or the other. With foods that straddle definitions, just apply some common sense and moderation. Go ahead and eat your ham. If you share it with family and friends you’re probably ok. If you ate the whole thing yourself in a couple days, maybe that’s bad. Same for everything else. Eat them in appropriate quantities and you’ll be fine.
  - card_zero 3y ago
    Hey, no pedant trapping. Anyway wanting a definition of a thing you're told to be scared of, as well as a proposed mechanism of harm, isn't being a pedant.
  - bsder 3y ago
    You should write a paper. Because apparently classification isn't all that easy: "Machine Learning Prediction of Food Processing" https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.22.21257615v5.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.22.21257615v... "Interestingly, even in presence of detailed ingredient information, the consistency across nutrition specialists in assigning NOVA classes was found to be low [39]"
- grecy 3y ago
  It is now a confirmed fact that bacon causes cancer. I don't think bacon consumption has gone down since then.
  - card_zero 3y ago
    It's nitrites or nitrates, specifically. So now I have stopped eating pastrami, and my reuben sandwiches are ruined, and I'm unhappy about that. They've evolved into an abomination involving chicken tikka and blue cheese, in an attempt to get some kind of taste out.
    - stakhanov 3y ago
      If you make your own sausages and deli meats, you can just skip the nitrites; they are not really needed for the taste, just for the red color. So your sausages will come out grey/brown, but will taste just as good. Nitrites are a bit of an economic factor, due to accelerating the curing process, and also help in mitigating risks around food safety. So they're primarily relevant to entities doing this sort of thing at industrial scale, who are subject to government standards on food safety. Home cooking to the rescue! ...on a related note, I don't really understand why small-scale organic/regional producers of aren't already doing this. At least where I am, in a rural part of Germany, we have farmers markets and other sales outlets that pride themselves on doing pretty much everything in the organic/regional playbook that could possibly set them apart from the mass-market, and who charge very high prices. Surely, they could do me the favour and just skip the nitrites? But, for some reason, they don't.
      - bsder 3y ago
        > If you make your own sausages and deli meats, you can just skip the nitrites; they are not really needed for the taste, just for the red color. That's not completely correct if you don't cook the meat quickly afterward. Apparently the safety issue is mostly botulism. Certain meats (especially sausages) create anaerobic conditions while curing that allows botulism to grow. Nitrites prevent that. It is possible to cure meats without nitrates (see: Prosciutto di Parma), but it's not a straightforward, blanket thing.
- imjonse 3y ago
  What percentage of cured meat and cold cuts consumed worldwide (or in your locale) would you say are modern vs. traditional?
  - bsder 3y ago
    Almost certainly modern industrialized dominates ... by far. And this has issues in more than just "highly processed". Listeria is also an issue. Finding a deli that makes their own meat is practically impossible nowadays.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bsder 3y ago

Maybe, but the one I generally flag is "cold cuts". Humans have been curing meat forever. The question is whether "cured meat" is an issue or whether "modern curing of meat" is the problem. When you ordered a ham from my old local meat market, it was a hunk of freshly butchered pig that was brined, cured and smoked. If it had any sugar, I sure couldn't taste it. You took it home, put it in the oven for a couple hours, and sliced it. It tasted wonderful by itself or with just a bit of fresh horseradish. That ham is quite a lot different in terms of ingredients from the "sliced ham" you will get from your local grocery deli as a "cold cut".

2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
While the definition of different “processed foods” leaves a lot to be desired, there’s always going to be foods that are at the edge of one definition. Further attempts to refine the definition also bumps up against pendants like yourself regardless of what definition they use. But just like porn, we all know what definitely falls into one category or the other. With foods that straddle definitions, just apply some common sense and moderation. Go ahead and eat your ham. If you share it with family and friends you’re probably ok. If you ate the whole thing yourself in a couple days, maybe that’s bad. Same for everything else. Eat them in appropriate quantities and you’ll be fine.
- card_zero 3y ago
  Hey, no pedant trapping. Anyway wanting a definition of a thing you're told to be scared of, as well as a proposed mechanism of harm, isn't being a pedant.
- bsder 3y ago
  You should write a paper. Because apparently classification isn't all that easy: "Machine Learning Prediction of Food Processing" https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.22.21257615v5.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.22.21257615v... "Interestingly, even in presence of detailed ingredient information, the consistency across nutrition specialists in assigning NOVA classes was found to be low [39]"
grecy 3y ago
It is now a confirmed fact that bacon causes cancer. I don't think bacon consumption has gone down since then.
- card_zero 3y ago
  It's nitrites or nitrates, specifically. So now I have stopped eating pastrami, and my reuben sandwiches are ruined, and I'm unhappy about that. They've evolved into an abomination involving chicken tikka and blue cheese, in an attempt to get some kind of taste out.
  - stakhanov 3y ago
    If you make your own sausages and deli meats, you can just skip the nitrites; they are not really needed for the taste, just for the red color. So your sausages will come out grey/brown, but will taste just as good. Nitrites are a bit of an economic factor, due to accelerating the curing process, and also help in mitigating risks around food safety. So they're primarily relevant to entities doing this sort of thing at industrial scale, who are subject to government standards on food safety. Home cooking to the rescue! ...on a related note, I don't really understand why small-scale organic/regional producers of aren't already doing this. At least where I am, in a rural part of Germany, we have farmers markets and other sales outlets that pride themselves on doing pretty much everything in the organic/regional playbook that could possibly set them apart from the mass-market, and who charge very high prices. Surely, they could do me the favour and just skip the nitrites? But, for some reason, they don't.
    - bsder 3y ago
      > If you make your own sausages and deli meats, you can just skip the nitrites; they are not really needed for the taste, just for the red color. That's not completely correct if you don't cook the meat quickly afterward. Apparently the safety issue is mostly botulism. Certain meats (especially sausages) create anaerobic conditions while curing that allows botulism to grow. Nitrites prevent that. It is possible to cure meats without nitrates (see: Prosciutto di Parma), but it's not a straightforward, blanket thing.
imjonse 3y ago
What percentage of cured meat and cold cuts consumed worldwide (or in your locale) would you say are modern vs. traditional?
- bsder 3y ago
  Almost certainly modern industrialized dominates ... by far. And this has issues in more than just "highly processed". Listeria is also an issue. Finding a deli that makes their own meat is practically impossible nowadays.