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A related concept I noticed is that we are "wired" to identify with whoever is presented as the protagonist, even when the information is readily available to r
by xyzelement 3y ago
A related concept I noticed is that we are "wired" to identify with whoever is presented as the protagonist, even when the information is readily available to recognize them as the antagonist.
EG - I recently watched Peter Pan for the first time, as an adult. Peter is basically a horrible person who deludes and kidnaps children, puts them in incredibly dangerous situations, doesn't care about people other than to make himself look good (eg, he fought the pirates who had kidnapped the Indian princess, then he got so distracted w himself she nearly drowned in the tide). On the other hand, we're told that Hook and the pirates are the bad guys but really Hook is just responding to the fact that Peter had maimed him and fed his hand to a crocodile. There's no indication of anything bad Hook has done prior or since, other than trying to "get" Peter for having done that.
The protagonist of Peter Pan is actually the dad who was trying to protect the kids from nonsense but even he got derailed by the wife, therefore leaving the kids vulnerable to all that has happened to them.
But if you ask most people who are familiar with the story, they'll react to the superficial presentation that Pan is whimsical and aspirational for children while the Dad represents the dull adult world to be escaped from, or something like that.
The crux is that the narrative form suggests how we should feel about whom even if that makes no sense. I think this is what the article here is talking about as well in a different manifestation.
- b112 3y agoWhile I get what you're saying, context counts. Hook is a pirate. By definition, that's a murdering, raping thief, whos main income is boarding honest ships, slaughtering their crew, etc. Piracy is/was punishable by death. The story is old, but at the time written, anyone would be a hero for maiming, or killing a pirate.
- CrazyStat 3y ago> The story is old, but at the time written, anyone would be a hero for maiming, or killing a pirate. I’m going to contest this. Peter Pan first appeared in 1902[1], by which time the romanticization of pirates was well under way. The Pirates of Penzance, for example, debuted in 1879[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_White_Bird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_White_Bird [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirates_of_Penzance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirates_of_Penzance
- b112 3y agoPeople write movies about scummy, murdering, thieving, amoral gangsters too, going into great detail about their "humanity". So? This doesn't mean they're good people, and that 120+ years ago they wouldn't be put to death. Anyone killing a murdering, scummy gangster would be a hero. Just because someone writes a nice fictional comedy story about a scum of the Earth group of pirates, doesn't mean that all pirates are OK. Ask the villagers that get raped, murdered, and killed by pirates what they think. And yes, that's in parts of the world today too.
- bazoom42 3y agoPedantic comment perhaps, but “protagonist” does not mean “good guy” or “admirable”. It just means main character in a story.
- bongodongobob 3y agoCmon. Hook is a pirate trying to kill a child.
- xyzelement 3y agoPan is not a child, but a predator who "refused to grow up" - and the whole "trying to kill him" is clearly the result of Pan cutting Hook's hand off and sadistically feeding it to a crocodile (IE, while we don't know what the battle between Hook and Pan was about, the fact that Hook celebrated his win by maiming Hook and humiliating him this way is a good datapoint into his character.) It seems like you're on Pan's side, which I think is in line with the point the comment you're replying to makes.