3 ms·

I think it’s a good thing that laws are being passed to make it mostly impossible for AirBnbs to be in residential areas and to make it easier for residents to

I think it’s a good thing that laws are being passed to make it mostly impossible for AirBnbs to be in residential areas and to make it easier for residents to find affordable houses instead of tourists

jjjjj55555 3y ago
I don't trust the laws. I think they're either implemented on behalf of the hotel chains, or else they only entrench people who already got "permits" for short term rentals, which now become basically golden tickets. I seriously doubt we'll see rents drop significantly anywhere.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  And that’s how it should be - a hotel is a business in a commercial zone with professional management, pays taxes and doesn’t negatively affect home affordability
  - mlrtime 3y ago
    And why shouldn't I be able to rent out my apartment for a week if I go on vacation? This was supposed to be the intent of Airbnb and is still a valuable resource if available.
    - squokko 3y ago
      Why shouldn't your neighbors be able to use their powers as voters to lobby their government to pass laws preventing their quiet suburban street from being used as a distributed hotel?
      - Brian_K_White 3y ago
        This. I hate staying in hotels and love varied and individual places like airbnb has, but this is simply valid. As a consumer, it has to be good enough if there are only some areas where it's allowed, and some where it's not. Or maybe allowed but only up to a certain density or percentage. Anywhere it would be allowed without limit I would probably not want anyway, just like a hotel. Most airbnbs are run like little hotels now anyway and I hate most of those, but at least there is variety and plenty are good still.
      - username332211 3y ago
        Your framing is such a good defense of the arbitrary and thoughtless use and abuse of political power. "Use your power as a voter", what could go wrong? Why shouldn't our neighbors use their powers as voters to keep their peaceful suburban street from being used as housing for migrants, minorities and other undesirables? I'd bet that'll affect housing desirability far more than short term rentals. Why shouldn't they use their power as voters to ban the construction of affordable homes in their vicinity? Why shouldn't we use our power as voters to proscribe alcohol in their town? What could go wrong? Your power as a voter isn't supposed to be the power to arbitrary meddle in other people's business.
        mplewis 3y ago
        What do you think a community is if not a group of people who decide on a common way to share resources and build harmony?
        squokko 3y ago
        Yes, all of those should be legal. And other voters can oppose them. For example, by electing national politicians who can pass laws like the Civil Rights Act or the Fair Housing Act.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        So, you think there is an equivalence between migrants and minorities who are long term renters who had to pay a deposit, got a background check and credit check compared to short term Airbnb “guests”? Are you okay with a meat packing plant in your neighborhood?
    - rtpg 3y ago
      I think the idea is that your neighbors didn't sign up to live next to total randos. How valid that argument is is up for debate. And it's not like you can't still rent out to friends or the like. Just totally financializing and anonymizing that interaction turns it into a different sort of interaction. Social trust is a thing, and avoiding having _every single human interaction_ pass through some broker and be financialized is not the worst. But really... a touch of social proof never hurts.
    - AniseAbyss 3y ago
      Because contrary to what tourists think Amsterdam is not a theme park. Normal people live and work there. When tourists come home drunk at four in the morning they wake up families who have to get up at 7 to go to work and school. There is a reason why we seperate tourists in hotels. AIRBNB stopped catering to digital nomads and went straight into the hotel business.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      So should I be able to build a butcher shop right by your apartment and let you deal with the smell? There are zoning laws for a reasons. Do you own “your” apartment? I’m asking because some places consider it an “apartment” if it’s a rental and a “condo” if they are individual buyers and other countries call it an apartment regardless
TulliusCicero 3y ago
It'd be better if there was enough housing to support normal residential uses AND Airbnb, but it's easier to just blame Airbnb for problems.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Or you know, if you want short term rentals for tourists - build more hotels in commercial districts that are professionally managed.
  - TulliusCicero 3y ago
    Vacation homes are a somewhat different kind of thing. In practice, hotels don't support the same use cases or charge exorbitant rates to do so.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      It’s amazing how much more it costs to be a legally run, commercial short term rental that is professionally managed , follows all regulations and pays the legally required taxes isn’t it? BTW, I live in (and own) a vacation home almost permanently - a condotel - that meets all of the above requirements. In fact we can’t live here more than 179 consecutively without leaving for some time and renting it out to follow the law. I knew what I signed up for and we made that choice. It would be completely different when we bought our house in the burbs that was zoned “residential” https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/condotel.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/condotel.asp
casenmgreen 3y ago
I may be wrong, but I think the real solution is to increase supply, not constrain demand. Indeed, constraining demand acts to constrain a factor which acts to encourage supply.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  In a tourist spot, long term renters are going to be paying less per month than short term tourist. I don’t know anyone who would want a bunch of Airbnbs intermixed with their residential areas
coin 3y ago
Why are residents more deserving than tourists?
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Really? Because people need a place to live. If you haven’t seen it yourself, there is a worldwide epidemic of people who are addicted to needing shelter for survival. Tourist can go to these things called “hotels”
- phone8675309 3y ago
  Silicon Valley Moment

jjjjj55555 3y ago

I don't trust the laws. I think they're either implemented on behalf of the hotel chains, or else they only entrench people who already got "permits" for short term rentals, which now become basically golden tickets. I seriously doubt we'll see rents drop significantly anywhere.

scarface_74 3y ago
And that’s how it should be - a hotel is a business in a commercial zone with professional management, pays taxes and doesn’t negatively affect home affordability
- mlrtime 3y ago
  And why shouldn't I be able to rent out my apartment for a week if I go on vacation? This was supposed to be the intent of Airbnb and is still a valuable resource if available.
  - squokko 3y ago
    Why shouldn't your neighbors be able to use their powers as voters to lobby their government to pass laws preventing their quiet suburban street from being used as a distributed hotel?
    - Brian_K_White 3y ago
      This. I hate staying in hotels and love varied and individual places like airbnb has, but this is simply valid. As a consumer, it has to be good enough if there are only some areas where it's allowed, and some where it's not. Or maybe allowed but only up to a certain density or percentage. Anywhere it would be allowed without limit I would probably not want anyway, just like a hotel. Most airbnbs are run like little hotels now anyway and I hate most of those, but at least there is variety and plenty are good still.
    - username332211 3y ago
      Your framing is such a good defense of the arbitrary and thoughtless use and abuse of political power. "Use your power as a voter", what could go wrong? Why shouldn't our neighbors use their powers as voters to keep their peaceful suburban street from being used as housing for migrants, minorities and other undesirables? I'd bet that'll affect housing desirability far more than short term rentals. Why shouldn't they use their power as voters to ban the construction of affordable homes in their vicinity? Why shouldn't we use our power as voters to proscribe alcohol in their town? What could go wrong? Your power as a voter isn't supposed to be the power to arbitrary meddle in other people's business.
      - mplewis 3y ago
        What do you think a community is if not a group of people who decide on a common way to share resources and build harmony?
      - squokko 3y ago
        Yes, all of those should be legal. And other voters can oppose them. For example, by electing national politicians who can pass laws like the Civil Rights Act or the Fair Housing Act.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        So, you think there is an equivalence between migrants and minorities who are long term renters who had to pay a deposit, got a background check and credit check compared to short term Airbnb “guests”? Are you okay with a meat packing plant in your neighborhood?
  - rtpg 3y ago
    I think the idea is that your neighbors didn't sign up to live next to total randos. How valid that argument is is up for debate. And it's not like you can't still rent out to friends or the like. Just totally financializing and anonymizing that interaction turns it into a different sort of interaction. Social trust is a thing, and avoiding having _every single human interaction_ pass through some broker and be financialized is not the worst. But really... a touch of social proof never hurts.
  - AniseAbyss 3y ago
    Because contrary to what tourists think Amsterdam is not a theme park. Normal people live and work there. When tourists come home drunk at four in the morning they wake up families who have to get up at 7 to go to work and school. There is a reason why we seperate tourists in hotels. AIRBNB stopped catering to digital nomads and went straight into the hotel business.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    So should I be able to build a butcher shop right by your apartment and let you deal with the smell? There are zoning laws for a reasons. Do you own “your” apartment? I’m asking because some places consider it an “apartment” if it’s a rental and a “condo” if they are individual buyers and other countries call it an apartment regardless

TulliusCicero 3y ago

It'd be better if there was enough housing to support normal residential uses AND Airbnb, but it's easier to just blame Airbnb for problems.

scarface_74 3y ago
Or you know, if you want short term rentals for tourists - build more hotels in commercial districts that are professionally managed.
- TulliusCicero 3y ago
  Vacation homes are a somewhat different kind of thing. In practice, hotels don't support the same use cases or charge exorbitant rates to do so.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    It’s amazing how much more it costs to be a legally run, commercial short term rental that is professionally managed , follows all regulations and pays the legally required taxes isn’t it? BTW, I live in (and own) a vacation home almost permanently - a condotel - that meets all of the above requirements. In fact we can’t live here more than 179 consecutively without leaving for some time and renting it out to follow the law. I knew what I signed up for and we made that choice. It would be completely different when we bought our house in the burbs that was zoned “residential” https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/condotel.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/condotel.asp

casenmgreen 3y ago

I may be wrong, but I think the real solution is to increase supply, not constrain demand. Indeed, constraining demand acts to constrain a factor which acts to encourage supply.

scarface_74 3y ago
In a tourist spot, long term renters are going to be paying less per month than short term tourist. I don’t know anyone who would want a bunch of Airbnbs intermixed with their residential areas

coin 3y ago

Why are residents more deserving than tourists?

scarface_74 3y ago
Really? Because people need a place to live. If you haven’t seen it yourself, there is a worldwide epidemic of people who are addicted to needing shelter for survival. Tourist can go to these things called “hotels”
phone8675309 3y ago
Silicon Valley Moment