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Predictability and objectivity of a robot >>> charisma for most jobs. People prefer not to deal with people, to do stuff via web forms instead of phone calls et

Predictability and objectivity of a robot >>> charisma for most jobs. People prefer not to deal with people, to do stuff via web forms instead of phone calls etc. In person charisma is also easily done via robots by just giving them an animated avatar, that robot will outperform 99% of humans easily since humans have a hard time faking emotions while a robot doesn't, they can fake being excited or sad or understanding every time and always be there for you unlike real humans. The only reason that is hard for humans isn't that it is hard to do the action, but that it is hard to control our emotions.

keiferski 3y ago
I’m sorry, but if you think that an in-person robot with an animated face is more charismatic than a human being, we must live in different universes.
- minedwiz 3y ago
  HN moment
- Jensson 3y ago
  Real humans mostly shows fake emotions when they work in such jobs, everyone who can read humans knows that. Fake emotions aren't very charismatic, you feel the fakeness from a mile away, a robot showing emotions without that hint of fakeness is way better. Of course you would need to build a model around that, which people hasn't done, but the rules for charismatic social interactions such as serving food are really simple so I see no reason why that would be hard to do. Maybe you are underestimating robots here, based on the sci fi robots that are very inflexible and bad at showing emotions? We know that AI can show extremely expressive faces when they draw images etc, there is no reason to believe they wouldn't be able to do that since they already can do it.
  - keiferski 3y ago
    How does a robot have real emotions? Aren't they fake by definition? By charisma I mean in the sense of higher-level sociopolitical organization, like being a manager at a company or giving a public speech – useful skills in the job market that will continue to be useful. Not serving french fries. A smiling robot isn't going to inspire or convince a human being of anything. Regardless, the idea that a robot smiling is somehow "more charismatic" than a human being is absurd. People read too much sci-fi.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > How does a robot have real emotions? Aren't they fake by definition? That wasn't the point, the point is whether you can feel that they are fake or not, doesn't matter if they actually are. Fake feeling emotions are much harder to convey for a robot since they require more nuance. > A smiling robot isn't going to inspire or convince a human being of anything. They already have, smiling robots with basically no intelligence are already making billions for corporations in phone games. > Regardless, the idea that a robot smiling is somehow "more charismatic" than a human being is absurd. People read too much sci-fi. Why is that absurd? The idea that robots can't be charismatic is probably the most common trope of sci-fi, in reality we see robots mastering soft skills way easier than hard skills, there is no reason to believe charisma will come after understanding at this point, if you believe that you have your head in the sand.
      - keiferski 3y ago
        The purpose of this topic was to discuss skills that aren't likely to be replaced by AI tools in the near future. Speculating about superhuman AI androids that are more charismatic than humans is entirely beyond the point and nothing more than a sci-fi fantasy right now. Unfortunately, AI discussions as of late seem to be filled with this kind of absurd speculation that is no more than magical thinking. It belongs on a science fiction forum.
        Jensson 3y ago
        > The purpose of this topic was to discuss skills that aren't likely to be replaced by AI tools in the near future. Right, and managers are extremely unsafe with the tools we already have. LLMs are more charismatic writers than most managers, and we know from Uber that we can automate away the management layer easily as long as we can have other signals to govern workers. With remote jobs being popular today face to face communication isn't needed, you just need to write well, so that isn't a problem either. Managers doesn't need as much subject matter expertise as workers, so managers will get automated away easier than workers. > Speculating about superhuman AI androids that are more charismatic than humans is entirely beyond the point and nothing more than a sci-fi fantasy right now. I didn't say android, I say an avatar, I meant on a screen. And no you don't need a superhuman AI to express emotions better than humans, we already have AI that are better than humans at expressing emotions, both in text as LLMs or in images from the image generators.
- ben_w 3y ago
  Current robots, sure. Uncanny valley. It's really really hard to mimic humans, and getting close can look much worse than being deliberately mediocre. This is why Pixar faces work, while The Polar Express was panned. Ultimately though, that's just muscle under skin — with sufficient effort it's obviously replicable, and thus a question of when.
leashless 3y ago
English isn't an ideal language to describe what kinds of "charisma" an AI could have, but I don't think it's at all foolish or improbable to say than an AI system could have profound and indeed superhuman charisma. Worshipping gods is an old human sport, and it wouldn't need *much* encouragement for humans to see an AI system as a sort of "village god" –– the kinds of entities which were worshipped all over the world before One Big God religions became common. A "Tesla Kami" which talks from your Tesla, and also talks for The Teslas, and also talks for Tesla, Inc. for example could be highly charismatic and not even slightly humanoid in appearance. If you think I'm joking, consider the Knight Rider TV series with a talking car. Cars can have charisma even if they don't talk, but add a voice-and-mind and we're off to the races, so to speak. Charisma is a funny thing.

keiferski 3y ago

I’m sorry, but if you think that an in-person robot with an animated face is more charismatic than a human being, we must live in different universes.

minedwiz 3y ago
HN moment
Jensson 3y ago
Real humans mostly shows fake emotions when they work in such jobs, everyone who can read humans knows that. Fake emotions aren't very charismatic, you feel the fakeness from a mile away, a robot showing emotions without that hint of fakeness is way better. Of course you would need to build a model around that, which people hasn't done, but the rules for charismatic social interactions such as serving food are really simple so I see no reason why that would be hard to do. Maybe you are underestimating robots here, based on the sci fi robots that are very inflexible and bad at showing emotions? We know that AI can show extremely expressive faces when they draw images etc, there is no reason to believe they wouldn't be able to do that since they already can do it.
- keiferski 3y ago
  How does a robot have real emotions? Aren't they fake by definition? By charisma I mean in the sense of higher-level sociopolitical organization, like being a manager at a company or giving a public speech – useful skills in the job market that will continue to be useful. Not serving french fries. A smiling robot isn't going to inspire or convince a human being of anything. Regardless, the idea that a robot smiling is somehow "more charismatic" than a human being is absurd. People read too much sci-fi.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > How does a robot have real emotions? Aren't they fake by definition? That wasn't the point, the point is whether you can feel that they are fake or not, doesn't matter if they actually are. Fake feeling emotions are much harder to convey for a robot since they require more nuance. > A smiling robot isn't going to inspire or convince a human being of anything. They already have, smiling robots with basically no intelligence are already making billions for corporations in phone games. > Regardless, the idea that a robot smiling is somehow "more charismatic" than a human being is absurd. People read too much sci-fi. Why is that absurd? The idea that robots can't be charismatic is probably the most common trope of sci-fi, in reality we see robots mastering soft skills way easier than hard skills, there is no reason to believe charisma will come after understanding at this point, if you believe that you have your head in the sand.
    - keiferski 3y ago
      The purpose of this topic was to discuss skills that aren't likely to be replaced by AI tools in the near future. Speculating about superhuman AI androids that are more charismatic than humans is entirely beyond the point and nothing more than a sci-fi fantasy right now. Unfortunately, AI discussions as of late seem to be filled with this kind of absurd speculation that is no more than magical thinking. It belongs on a science fiction forum.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        > The purpose of this topic was to discuss skills that aren't likely to be replaced by AI tools in the near future. Right, and managers are extremely unsafe with the tools we already have. LLMs are more charismatic writers than most managers, and we know from Uber that we can automate away the management layer easily as long as we can have other signals to govern workers. With remote jobs being popular today face to face communication isn't needed, you just need to write well, so that isn't a problem either. Managers doesn't need as much subject matter expertise as workers, so managers will get automated away easier than workers. > Speculating about superhuman AI androids that are more charismatic than humans is entirely beyond the point and nothing more than a sci-fi fantasy right now. I didn't say android, I say an avatar, I meant on a screen. And no you don't need a superhuman AI to express emotions better than humans, we already have AI that are better than humans at expressing emotions, both in text as LLMs or in images from the image generators.
ben_w 3y ago
Current robots, sure. Uncanny valley. It's really really hard to mimic humans, and getting close can look much worse than being deliberately mediocre. This is why Pixar faces work, while The Polar Express was panned. Ultimately though, that's just muscle under skin — with sufficient effort it's obviously replicable, and thus a question of when.

leashless 3y ago

English isn't an ideal language to describe what kinds of "charisma" an AI could have, but I don't think it's at all foolish or improbable to say than an AI system could have profound and indeed superhuman charisma. Worshipping gods is an old human sport, and it wouldn't need *much* encouragement for humans to see an AI system as a sort of "village god" –– the kinds of entities which were worshipped all over the world before One Big God religions became common. A "Tesla Kami" which talks from your Tesla, and also talks for The Teslas, and also talks for Tesla, Inc. for example could be highly charismatic and not even slightly humanoid in appearance. If you think I'm joking, consider the Knight Rider TV series with a talking car. Cars can have charisma even if they don't talk, but add a voice-and-mind and we're off to the races, so to speak. Charisma is a funny thing.