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1. No, it was very easy. I used a normal USB cable and adb on the Linux command line, but the recommended method involves using Web USB in Chromium which is mea

1. No, it was very easy. I used a normal USB cable and adb on the Linux command line, but the recommended method involves using Web USB in Chromium which is meant to be easier for non-technical people but I couldn't get it to work. 2. No, it is very convenient. It has a sandbox for Google Play Services, which IMO is the best of both worlds as it means you can install all the proprietary crapware apps that make modern life tolerable, but Google Play doesn't have unfettered access to everything on your phone. If you want even more isolation you can set up a separate user and run all the Google Play stuff in a separate user account, which I did briefly try but personally I can't be bothered switching user all the time. The phone has never crashed. My bank apps work. I have a Pixel 6a.

moose44 3y ago
Second this.
Pfhortune 3y ago
FWIW, I've used the Web USB installer probably a dozen times without issue, so I would definitely recommend that route if adb is intimidating. I've done it both ways, but the web installer is so easy it feels magical. As for it not working, were you running a Flatpak/Snap version of the browser? Apparently those are problematic with Web USB. I personally haven't tried on Linux yet (just Mac O's) but now that I've switched to Fedora I might encounter the same issue you did.
- jstanley 3y ago
  Yes I think it might have been a snap.
- neilv 3y ago
  Tip: The GrapheneOS Web installer doesn't work for me with the Chromium in Debian Stable. I always try the Web installer, to see whether it works now, but then end up doing the command line method (which is also pretty easy, compared to historically how Android phone flashing used to work).
talhah 3y ago
Do things such as Gcam and Google Pay work? The two major things I need from my phone is good camera quality and being able to use Google Pay which is useful where I'm at.
- jstanley 3y ago
  I don't know what Gcam is, but it comes with a camera app. I've never used Google Pay so I don't know.
  - luke-stanley 3y ago
    The Google Camera app can be made to work fairly easily. Google Pay's NFC payment will not work in a useful way because the environment signature differs.
    - codethief 3y ago
      > The Google Camera app can be made to work fairly easily. In fact, it's as easy as installing it through Play Store.
- asdp9iujaspid 3y ago
  Google Camera works fine, but is not included out-the-box Google Pay will not work as GrapheneOS makes no attempt to masquerade as a Google-Certified device [0] [0] https://grapheneos.org/usage#banking-apps https://grapheneos.org/usage#banking-apps
  - Suffocate5100 3y ago
    It does not work on the phone, but I was able to use NFC payments with Google Wallet through my Pixel Watch.
- nani8ot 3y ago
  Some banks have their own contactless payment app, which can be set as default in GrapheneOS (or any Android). Most banking apps work, as long as they use AOSP's hardware attestation feature instead of Google's SafetyNet, which requires the same Google device certification as GPay. [1] https://grapheneos.org/usage#banking-apps https://grapheneos.org/usage#banking-apps
strcat 3y ago
> the recommended method involves using Web USB in Chromium which is meant to be easier for non-technical people but I couldn't get it to work. There's a bug on many Linux distributions which was fixed in fwupd but is still present because they haven't updated it to a recent version. It interferes with reconnecting to the device when it reboots into fastbootd mode as part of the install. We cover it in our install guides now. fwupd usually loses the race to connect to the device to the CLI install tool but wins the race against Chromium's implementation, which is why it impacts web install more. This is likely what you experienced before we documented this fwupd bug and got them to fix it upstream. The problem is that even though fwupd fixed it a while ago, Debian and even the latest Ubuntu still have the bug.
- trompetenaccoun 3y ago
  Since you seem to be on the Graphene team, may I piggyback on this: I've been wanting to make the switch over from iOS for some time but it bothers me a bit that I have to buy a Google phone. Are there any plans to support non-Google devices? I know this has been discussed and the answer I've seen is that Google devices are the best fit, but at least one more option would be nice.
  - ysnp 3y ago
    (not on the team) I believe the project are open to supporting other devices that meet the criteria, or collaborating with hardware partners to that effect. As I understand, the way it works is that the project first has to scope out a hardware target that meets their security requirements before support can be considered and funded for. Just that right now there are no other phones that meet the requirements specified in https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices If a phone met those requirements and was not made by Google, GrapheneOS would consider supporting it. In the case that Google didn't meet the requirements but a different phone did, GrapheneOS would support that phone and not the Pixels.
    - thisislife2 3y ago
      > Just that right now there are no other phones that meet the requirements specified And that highlights the main goal of GrapheneOS - a security hardened mobile OS. (Note that better 'security' doesn't necessarily also mean better privacy protection).

moose44 3y ago

Second this.

Pfhortune 3y ago

FWIW, I've used the Web USB installer probably a dozen times without issue, so I would definitely recommend that route if adb is intimidating. I've done it both ways, but the web installer is so easy it feels magical. As for it not working, were you running a Flatpak/Snap version of the browser? Apparently those are problematic with Web USB. I personally haven't tried on Linux yet (just Mac O's) but now that I've switched to Fedora I might encounter the same issue you did.

jstanley 3y ago
Yes I think it might have been a snap.
neilv 3y ago
Tip: The GrapheneOS Web installer doesn't work for me with the Chromium in Debian Stable. I always try the Web installer, to see whether it works now, but then end up doing the command line method (which is also pretty easy, compared to historically how Android phone flashing used to work).

talhah 3y ago

Do things such as Gcam and Google Pay work? The two major things I need from my phone is good camera quality and being able to use Google Pay which is useful where I'm at.

jstanley 3y ago
I don't know what Gcam is, but it comes with a camera app. I've never used Google Pay so I don't know.
- luke-stanley 3y ago
  The Google Camera app can be made to work fairly easily. Google Pay's NFC payment will not work in a useful way because the environment signature differs.
  - codethief 3y ago
    > The Google Camera app can be made to work fairly easily. In fact, it's as easy as installing it through Play Store.
asdp9iujaspid 3y ago
Google Camera works fine, but is not included out-the-box Google Pay will not work as GrapheneOS makes no attempt to masquerade as a Google-Certified device [0] [0] https://grapheneos.org/usage#banking-apps https://grapheneos.org/usage#banking-apps
- Suffocate5100 3y ago
  It does not work on the phone, but I was able to use NFC payments with Google Wallet through my Pixel Watch.
nani8ot 3y ago
Some banks have their own contactless payment app, which can be set as default in GrapheneOS (or any Android). Most banking apps work, as long as they use AOSP's hardware attestation feature instead of Google's SafetyNet, which requires the same Google device certification as GPay. [1] https://grapheneos.org/usage#banking-apps https://grapheneos.org/usage#banking-apps

strcat 3y ago

> the recommended method involves using Web USB in Chromium which is meant to be easier for non-technical people but I couldn't get it to work. There's a bug on many Linux distributions which was fixed in fwupd but is still present because they haven't updated it to a recent version. It interferes with reconnecting to the device when it reboots into fastbootd mode as part of the install. We cover it in our install guides now. fwupd usually loses the race to connect to the device to the CLI install tool but wins the race against Chromium's implementation, which is why it impacts web install more. This is likely what you experienced before we documented this fwupd bug and got them to fix it upstream. The problem is that even though fwupd fixed it a while ago, Debian and even the latest Ubuntu still have the bug.

trompetenaccoun 3y ago
Since you seem to be on the Graphene team, may I piggyback on this: I've been wanting to make the switch over from iOS for some time but it bothers me a bit that I have to buy a Google phone. Are there any plans to support non-Google devices? I know this has been discussed and the answer I've seen is that Google devices are the best fit, but at least one more option would be nice.
- ysnp 3y ago
  (not on the team) I believe the project are open to supporting other devices that meet the criteria, or collaborating with hardware partners to that effect. As I understand, the way it works is that the project first has to scope out a hardware target that meets their security requirements before support can be considered and funded for. Just that right now there are no other phones that meet the requirements specified in https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices If a phone met those requirements and was not made by Google, GrapheneOS would consider supporting it. In the case that Google didn't meet the requirements but a different phone did, GrapheneOS would support that phone and not the Pixels.
  - thisislife2 3y ago
    > Just that right now there are no other phones that meet the requirements specified And that highlights the main goal of GrapheneOS - a security hardened mobile OS. (Note that better 'security' doesn't necessarily also mean better privacy protection).