3 ms·

> I think many Americans see it as symbolic of their own personal political pet interests. I don't know if it's true of other nationalities, but Americans defi

by tivert 3y ago

> I think many Americans see it as symbolic of their own personal political pet interests. I don't know if it's true of other nationalities, but Americans definitely project their domestic politics onto foreign conflicts and controversies that they know nothing about, and then very strongly take sides (e.g. viewing Israel/Palestine as something close to American racial politics with funny accents).

s1artibartfast 3y ago
Agreed, I just find it interesting how intense the projection is, and also how superficial.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Agreed, I just find it interesting how intense the projection is, and also how superficial. I think it's because they're basically "casting" some foreign faction into a domestic political role. The Remain faction are the "Democrats" of Brexit, the Russians are the "MAGA Republicans" of the Ukraine war, the Israelis are the "white people" of the Israel/Palestine conflict, etc.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I get that, but what I would like to know is how these topics end up end up selected, and not something else. What were the magic combinations of factors led everyone to project onto these topics specifically. There is lasting resentment over Brexit (in the US), but nobody cared about Croatian ascension. Ukraine is a US political battleground, but the loss of Crimea was greeted with indifference. I think there must be something about the political and cultural moments that cause these issues to gain traction over other topics, or none at all.
    - tivert 3y ago
      Maybe it's headline-grabbing drama? > There is lasting resentment over Brexit (in the US), but nobody cared about Croatian ascension. One factor (of many) is language: I'd imagine any domestic happening in an English-speaking country will loom much larger in the minds of of Americans than anything happening in a non-English-speaking one. I'd also image that leads to a lot more convergence. So a US Democrat would in fact have more alignment with a UK Labor party supporter that a lot of other foreign factions. > Ukraine is a US political battleground, but the loss of Crimea was greeted with indifference. I recall Russia's 2014 actions in Ukraine as being confusing (little green men) and being accepted with a whimper. Russia's 2022 actions had high drama: unprovoked invasion, columns of tanks, videos of fighting, big losses followed by big gains, etc. But to your point about "political and cultural moments," that's definitely at play too. The Russian attempts at election interference and the Trump presidency made Russia into an enemy in the minds of liberals, and sometimes I feel like they feel the Ukraine war is almost a front in the anti-Trump "resistance." One other interesting example is Falun Gong. Before Trump, my impression was that Americans were generally sympathetic. But once Trump started taking a more antagonistic stance against China, and Falun Gong then aligned with him because of that, I noticed Liberals echoing CCP talking points about Falun Gong pretty frequently.

by tivert 3y ago

s1artibartfast 3y ago

Agreed, I just find it interesting how intense the projection is, and also how superficial.

tivert 3y ago
> Agreed, I just find it interesting how intense the projection is, and also how superficial. I think it's because they're basically "casting" some foreign faction into a domestic political role. The Remain faction are the "Democrats" of Brexit, the Russians are the "MAGA Republicans" of the Ukraine war, the Israelis are the "white people" of the Israel/Palestine conflict, etc.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I get that, but what I would like to know is how these topics end up end up selected, and not something else. What were the magic combinations of factors led everyone to project onto these topics specifically. There is lasting resentment over Brexit (in the US), but nobody cared about Croatian ascension. Ukraine is a US political battleground, but the loss of Crimea was greeted with indifference. I think there must be something about the political and cultural moments that cause these issues to gain traction over other topics, or none at all.
  - tivert 3y ago
    Maybe it's headline-grabbing drama? > There is lasting resentment over Brexit (in the US), but nobody cared about Croatian ascension. One factor (of many) is language: I'd imagine any domestic happening in an English-speaking country will loom much larger in the minds of of Americans than anything happening in a non-English-speaking one. I'd also image that leads to a lot more convergence. So a US Democrat would in fact have more alignment with a UK Labor party supporter that a lot of other foreign factions. > Ukraine is a US political battleground, but the loss of Crimea was greeted with indifference. I recall Russia's 2014 actions in Ukraine as being confusing (little green men) and being accepted with a whimper. Russia's 2022 actions had high drama: unprovoked invasion, columns of tanks, videos of fighting, big losses followed by big gains, etc. But to your point about "political and cultural moments," that's definitely at play too. The Russian attempts at election interference and the Trump presidency made Russia into an enemy in the minds of liberals, and sometimes I feel like they feel the Ukraine war is almost a front in the anti-Trump "resistance." One other interesting example is Falun Gong. Before Trump, my impression was that Americans were generally sympathetic. But once Trump started taking a more antagonistic stance against China, and Falun Gong then aligned with him because of that, I noticed Liberals echoing CCP talking points about Falun Gong pretty frequently.