4 ms·

> It's kinda impossible to answer without knowing: TBH, I'm kind of amazed at the way people talk about electricity. It seems like about twice a year I see a c

by _ea1k 3y ago

> It's kinda impossible to answer without knowing: TBH, I'm kind of amazed at the way people talk about electricity. It seems like about twice a year I see a couple of threads on local Facebook groups about how much electricity has gone up. Once after the coldest month, and again after the hottest month. I like to ask their $/kwh, and I've never once gotten an answer. But the US is sort of backward in general. I use an energy coop where how much my car costs to charge is directly affected by how much insulation I have in my attic.

ryandrake 3y ago
Electric companies have gotten very good at hiding and obfuscating their $/kwh. I can tell you instantly how expensive auto gasoline is in my area because prices are written in giant numbers on billboards next to each station. If you wanted me to quote my electricity costs, I’d have to scrutinize 12 months of bills, find the numbers in the small print, do some averaging because the cost varies throughout the day and has a complex tier system, then do more averaging across the year.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Interesting, the cost per kW⋅h is clearly included on my electric bill. I had assumed that was a regulatory requirement. But I have a flat rate electric service. I could see that if you have demand-based or time-of-day rates it would be complicated to express anything other than an overall average cost per kW⋅h .
  - gambiting 3y ago
    We used to be on a tariff where the cost could change every 30 minutes, in theory it meant that you could get very cheap electricity because the cost was directly linked to local demand, I've seen it where at night it was going into negative numbers(so they were paying us to use electricity), but at peak times it could be absolutely brutal too, you had to be careful and really monitor it almost real-time. We've since changed to a tariff where the cost changes daily, but the cost for the next day is announced around 1pm the day before, so I can plan things like charging my car or running appliances depending on what the tomorrow's cost is going to be.
  - WorldMaker 3y ago
    Keep in mind that especially in the US every state has different regulatory requirements for electricity and some states are better than others at forcing transparency in their utility's processes.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    It isn't that complicated. Just separate them into line items. off-peak == 1,234 kwh @ $.07/kwh, total: x on-peak == 242 kwh @ $.29/kwh, total: y
- _ea1k 3y ago
  My previous coop itemized the bill nicely, with the monthly fixed cost, the energy charge, and any relevant taxes all separately itemized. Probably the most confusing part was how to proportion the taxes, but even neglecting that wouldn't be particularly confusing. My current coop charges at least four different costs. A monthly $25 fee, an energy charge for each kwh below 1,000, a significantly higher charge for each kwh above 1,000, and the taxes. They don't itemize any of it, it is just a single line item with the amount and rate code. IMO, that shouldn't even be legal.
ellisv 3y ago
It gets even more complicated when considering time of day rates, which are becoming more common in the U.S. You could use the same kWh on two different days but incur very different costs based on when the load occurred.
richiebful1 3y ago
I know households who are poor and don't have financial education. They own a fully paid-off house, but can't afford to switch from space heaters to heat pump (or gas or anything more efficient). One of them was desperately trying to sell this winter because of the sheer cost of keeping warm. Luckily she has the home equity to finance and install mini splits. I helped her work through a home equity loan with the local bank. Being poor is expensive. The people who need efficient houses the most often don't
Symbiote 3y ago
A British energy bill would typically look like this [1, PDF]. The green marked (11) shows the rate clearly. My Danish bill is less clear. There are lines for electricity, tax, and other charges, rather than e.g. a single figure for usage and another for the connection. [1] https://www.britishgas.co.uk/aem6/content/dam/britishgas/downloads/fixed-direct-debit-guide.pdf https://www.britishgas.co.uk/aem6/content/dam/britishgas/dow...

by _ea1k 3y ago

ryandrake 3y ago

Electric companies have gotten very good at hiding and obfuscating their $/kwh. I can tell you instantly how expensive auto gasoline is in my area because prices are written in giant numbers on billboards next to each station. If you wanted me to quote my electricity costs, I’d have to scrutinize 12 months of bills, find the numbers in the small print, do some averaging because the cost varies throughout the day and has a complex tier system, then do more averaging across the year.

SoftTalker 3y ago
Interesting, the cost per kW⋅h is clearly included on my electric bill. I had assumed that was a regulatory requirement. But I have a flat rate electric service. I could see that if you have demand-based or time-of-day rates it would be complicated to express anything other than an overall average cost per kW⋅h .
- gambiting 3y ago
  We used to be on a tariff where the cost could change every 30 minutes, in theory it meant that you could get very cheap electricity because the cost was directly linked to local demand, I've seen it where at night it was going into negative numbers(so they were paying us to use electricity), but at peak times it could be absolutely brutal too, you had to be careful and really monitor it almost real-time. We've since changed to a tariff where the cost changes daily, but the cost for the next day is announced around 1pm the day before, so I can plan things like charging my car or running appliances depending on what the tomorrow's cost is going to be.
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  Keep in mind that especially in the US every state has different regulatory requirements for electricity and some states are better than others at forcing transparency in their utility's processes.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  It isn't that complicated. Just separate them into line items. off-peak == 1,234 kwh @ $.07/kwh, total: x on-peak == 242 kwh @ $.29/kwh, total: y
_ea1k 3y ago
My previous coop itemized the bill nicely, with the monthly fixed cost, the energy charge, and any relevant taxes all separately itemized. Probably the most confusing part was how to proportion the taxes, but even neglecting that wouldn't be particularly confusing. My current coop charges at least four different costs. A monthly $25 fee, an energy charge for each kwh below 1,000, a significantly higher charge for each kwh above 1,000, and the taxes. They don't itemize any of it, it is just a single line item with the amount and rate code. IMO, that shouldn't even be legal.

ellisv 3y ago

It gets even more complicated when considering time of day rates, which are becoming more common in the U.S. You could use the same kWh on two different days but incur very different costs based on when the load occurred.

richiebful1 3y ago

I know households who are poor and don't have financial education. They own a fully paid-off house, but can't afford to switch from space heaters to heat pump (or gas or anything more efficient). One of them was desperately trying to sell this winter because of the sheer cost of keeping warm. Luckily she has the home equity to finance and install mini splits. I helped her work through a home equity loan with the local bank. Being poor is expensive. The people who need efficient houses the most often don't

Symbiote 3y ago

A British energy bill would typically look like this [1, PDF]. The green marked (11) shows the rate clearly. My Danish bill is less clear. There are lines for electricity, tax, and other charges, rather than e.g. a single figure for usage and another for the connection. [1] https://www.britishgas.co.uk/aem6/content/dam/britishgas/downloads/fixed-direct-debit-guide.pdf https://www.britishgas.co.uk/aem6/content/dam/britishgas/dow...