3 ms·

a lot of hatred for assumed and imagined hypocrites here. In general I feel a lot of the discourse around what people who supported brexit believe or are like

a lot of hatred for assumed and imagined hypocrites here. In general I feel a lot of the discourse around what people who supported brexit believe or are like (or indeed, what all british people are like) is entirely divorced from my experience living in the country. I don't know what to do but be saddened by people delighting in widening rifts between people

quickslowdown 3y ago
I'm sure some people are delighted by this. My take on it is that this is the bed the YES voters made, and now they are lying in it. I don't get any pleasure from rubes being duped, but it's also hard to have sympathy for them. They had an opportunity to think about this before voting, they had all kinds of people talking about the consequences, and they went right ahead with voting YES anyway. I wish everyone could have critical thinking & reasoning skills, but since that isn't the world we live in, highlighting the after effects of decisions like this feels like the responsible thing to do for the next time a hugely consequential bill is introduced. We don't need to mock the people affected, but pointing out the completely foreseeable outcomes as they're happening is still important.
- Vecr 3y ago
  It's a Northern Ireland thing, because the land border to the rest of Ireland is also a land border to the EU. The UK's food standards are fine, last time I checked the overall food security (welfare, etc) and food standards were tied in second place, with the US.
- RugnirViking 3y ago
  > My take on it is that this is the bed the YES voters made, and now they are lying in it. But that's exactly my point, you're seeing this as a person having made a foolish decision, and now suffering for it. But there is no such person mentioned in the article. It's an entirely imagined hypocrite. I imagine all of the people upset that they no longer have EU food standards voted to keep the EU food standards... The people mentioned in the article are from london and are eating "Ardennes-style pâté". They are not, as a class, people who voted for brexit. In the article, one of them complains about the nationalistic fervour of others that led them to this point. I don't imagine there are any brexit voters out there who feel anything other than pleased about the appearance of "not for EU" labels. They probably feel it supports long-suffering local farmers, and will serve to stimulate the production of things in the UK as opposed to importing it from eastern/southern Europe. Whether they are right or not is entirely immaterial to my point, which is that people who know very little about matters persist in feeling superior over people they don't understand the motivations of
  - archagon 3y ago
    > I don't imagine there are any brexit voters out there who feel anything other than pleased about the appearance of "not for EU" labels. Sounds to me like you’re also imagining what hypothetical Brexit voters would be thinking.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
I think it is very strange how politicized the topic is in the USA, and the level of interest. I think many Americans see it as symbolic of their own personal political pet interests. Brits should either suffer for the illiberal hubris, or are noble for defying tyranny. Few of the terminally online take the position that it is simply a British issue to determine what they want, and wish them the best in sorting it out.
- tivert 3y ago
  > I think many Americans see it as symbolic of their own personal political pet interests. I don't know if it's true of other nationalities, but Americans definitely project their domestic politics onto foreign conflicts and controversies that they know nothing about, and then very strongly take sides (e.g. viewing Israel/Palestine as something close to American racial politics with funny accents).
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    Agreed, I just find it interesting how intense the projection is, and also how superficial.
    - tivert 3y ago
      > Agreed, I just find it interesting how intense the projection is, and also how superficial. I think it's because they're basically "casting" some foreign faction into a domestic political role. The Remain faction are the "Democrats" of Brexit, the Russians are the "MAGA Republicans" of the Ukraine war, the Israelis are the "white people" of the Israel/Palestine conflict, etc.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        I get that, but what I would like to know is how these topics end up end up selected, and not something else. What were the magic combinations of factors led everyone to project onto these topics specifically. There is lasting resentment over Brexit (in the US), but nobody cared about Croatian ascension. Ukraine is a US political battleground, but the loss of Crimea was greeted with indifference. I think there must be something about the political and cultural moments that cause these issues to gain traction over other topics, or none at all.

quickslowdown 3y ago

I'm sure some people are delighted by this. My take on it is that this is the bed the YES voters made, and now they are lying in it. I don't get any pleasure from rubes being duped, but it's also hard to have sympathy for them. They had an opportunity to think about this before voting, they had all kinds of people talking about the consequences, and they went right ahead with voting YES anyway. I wish everyone could have critical thinking & reasoning skills, but since that isn't the world we live in, highlighting the after effects of decisions like this feels like the responsible thing to do for the next time a hugely consequential bill is introduced. We don't need to mock the people affected, but pointing out the completely foreseeable outcomes as they're happening is still important.

Vecr 3y ago
It's a Northern Ireland thing, because the land border to the rest of Ireland is also a land border to the EU. The UK's food standards are fine, last time I checked the overall food security (welfare, etc) and food standards were tied in second place, with the US.
RugnirViking 3y ago
> My take on it is that this is the bed the YES voters made, and now they are lying in it. But that's exactly my point, you're seeing this as a person having made a foolish decision, and now suffering for it. But there is no such person mentioned in the article. It's an entirely imagined hypocrite. I imagine all of the people upset that they no longer have EU food standards voted to keep the EU food standards... The people mentioned in the article are from london and are eating "Ardennes-style pâté". They are not, as a class, people who voted for brexit. In the article, one of them complains about the nationalistic fervour of others that led them to this point. I don't imagine there are any brexit voters out there who feel anything other than pleased about the appearance of "not for EU" labels. They probably feel it supports long-suffering local farmers, and will serve to stimulate the production of things in the UK as opposed to importing it from eastern/southern Europe. Whether they are right or not is entirely immaterial to my point, which is that people who know very little about matters persist in feeling superior over people they don't understand the motivations of
- archagon 3y ago
  > I don't imagine there are any brexit voters out there who feel anything other than pleased about the appearance of "not for EU" labels. Sounds to me like you’re also imagining what hypothetical Brexit voters would be thinking.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I think it is very strange how politicized the topic is in the USA, and the level of interest. I think many Americans see it as symbolic of their own personal political pet interests. Brits should either suffer for the illiberal hubris, or are noble for defying tyranny. Few of the terminally online take the position that it is simply a British issue to determine what they want, and wish them the best in sorting it out.

tivert 3y ago
> I think many Americans see it as symbolic of their own personal political pet interests. I don't know if it's true of other nationalities, but Americans definitely project their domestic politics onto foreign conflicts and controversies that they know nothing about, and then very strongly take sides (e.g. viewing Israel/Palestine as something close to American racial politics with funny accents).
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Agreed, I just find it interesting how intense the projection is, and also how superficial.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > Agreed, I just find it interesting how intense the projection is, and also how superficial. I think it's because they're basically "casting" some foreign faction into a domestic political role. The Remain faction are the "Democrats" of Brexit, the Russians are the "MAGA Republicans" of the Ukraine war, the Israelis are the "white people" of the Israel/Palestine conflict, etc.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      I get that, but what I would like to know is how these topics end up end up selected, and not something else. What were the magic combinations of factors led everyone to project onto these topics specifically. There is lasting resentment over Brexit (in the US), but nobody cared about Croatian ascension. Ukraine is a US political battleground, but the loss of Crimea was greeted with indifference. I think there must be something about the political and cultural moments that cause these issues to gain traction over other topics, or none at all.