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When I got my last car, it had a sticker instructing me to press the SOS button to opt out of data collection. The gentleman that answered acted confused when I

When I got my last car, it had a sticker instructing me to press the SOS button to opt out of data collection. The gentleman that answered acted confused when I made the request, taking the stance that he wasn't aware of data collection from the car and maybe I should contact the manufacturer. It was only after I read him the sticker text verbatim that he went into a scripted response and confirmed the opt out. Shady.

VHRanger 3y ago
Brand?
- batch12 3y ago
  Toyota. I still had the sticker- I peeled it off and put it in the manual. The exact text is: VEHICLE DATA TRANSMISSION IS ON! Your vehicle wirelessly transmits location, driving and vehicle health data to deliver your services and for internal research and data analysis. See www.toyota[.]com/privacyvts. To disable, press vehicle's SOS button.
  - Kon-Peki 3y ago
    Prepare to be creeped out: https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/
    - janice1999 3y ago
      People seem to unaware of it: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/08/toyota-cars-collecting-and-potentially-sharing-location-data-and-personal-information-choice-says https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/08/toyot...
    - HankB99 3y ago
      Yeah, right at the top > We may modify this Privacy Notice by posting a new version at this website effective on the date of publication. No actual notification needed. Are they screaming to be regulated?
      - colpabar 3y ago
        Isn't this how all ToS work though? They all contain some clause that says "actually we reserve the right to do whatever we want whenever we want and everything you read here is meaningless"
        giantg2 3y ago
        Yep, and that's why physically defeating the device is always better than relying on the other party to honor their word. Disconnect the wireless module/board and they can't send your data.
        idlephysicist 3y ago
        I've physically disconnected the modem in my Audi, though when it goes to the dealer for a service (still under extended warranty) I cannot help but imagine that they download the data.
  - andy99 3y ago
    Similar experience but to be fair at least toyota has a big sticker. Other cars are doing it too and just not telling you. Either way, my next car is going to be a 90s land rover.
    - supportengineer 3y ago
      I found this Facebook group called "Low Miles No Miles" https://www.facebook.com/groups/2066782386864241/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/2066782386864241/ I was very surprised how many people there are who buy cars from the factory and immediately stored them, in the 1990's. In some cases the owners did not even remove any of the factory stickers or plastic. This group must be showing just the tip of the iceberg.
beej71 3y ago
I was looking at the Prius Prime for a next car--thanks for the heads-up!
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  Prius Prime has a single fuse [labeled `DCS`] which, once removed, actually disables the computer module which connects to the two cell antenna.
  - beej71 3y ago
    This is excellent news. Thanks!
    - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
      I test drove a Prius Prime, and ended up purchasing a Camry Hybrid (instead). Was less expensive, and is much better on the highway [gets 51+mpg].
arkadiyt 3y ago
If I get a new car I'm just taking the modem out.
- derwiki 3y ago
  If an insurance company can’t find data on you when they expect it, won’t they just charge you the high risk premium?
  - mr_toad 3y ago
    If you won’t tell them whether you have a car alarm or a secure garage they just assume you don’t.
- brewdad 3y ago
  One of the automakers in the article claims that voids your warranty. It may or may not but enjoy the legal battle should you ever need to make a claim.
  - Our_Benefactors 3y ago
    It does not. There are laws against voiding a warranty based on aftermarket modifications made by the end user. This is the case in the USA at least.
gvurrdon 3y ago
I never saw one of those when buying my most recent car (Toyota). But, after creating an account on their website I was able to find this section: Consent Centre E-privacy: Your car data Help us improve our products by sharing car data and diagnostic info. We don’t currently have your consent to use this data. This may be for the following reasons: Your car doesn’t have Connected Services. Contact your dealer to check if they can be added. No (connected) car has been added to your account. Go to My Vehicle, add a car if needed, then connect your car via the Connected Services card. You have a connected car but have yet to consent. Go to My Vehicle, and open the chosen car. You will be requested to give your consent. Toyota thanks you for helping us to improve our products. FWIW, their smartphone app contains a "consent" section with various toggles for the usual reasons (e.g. "sharing data to improve products") and these are all turned off.
- paledot 3y ago
  I love the attention to detail here, like any customer ever has navigated to this page trying to find out how to give consent to having their data collected.
m463 3y ago
The confusion was likely a scripted response too. I had a friend who worked with call centers, taking orders over the phone. they had a script for everything, and after they quickly took your order, they started with a scripted upsell. If the person balked, they had responses for everything so they could continue. The only way out of the script was if the customer said "I will cancel my order". The call center person would be fired if they did not follow the script.
- staplers 3y ago
  Xfinity similarly does this if they overcharge you on a contract. They try to upsell on a new (less value) contract for an hour before finally just changing tone and saying "you're right we messed up" and refunding you.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    After all, you called them, which shows you're a ripe target. Every sales person knows that. Oh, you thought they were a support person? Maybe sales support.
    - mykehunt 3y ago
      When in doubt try the "God" opt-out. I have found they usually either do not have a scripted rebuttal to this or they are legally not allowed to go against one's religious views. This can also be useful when feeling pressured to make an immediate decision by asking for a moment to "pray". Examples: 1- "God told me to..." While canceling Time Warner Cable I tried cancelling a few times prior. Always met with rebuttals, put on hold to research the account. Either waited on hold for 20 minutes or the call was disconnected. Tried again and gave the reason for cancelling "God told me to" account cancelled immediately. (I have also heard simply saying you're moving out of the service area works too.) 2- "Moment to pray" - Buying time or dissuade an aggressive salesperson. My wife just recently gave birth to our first child. When her water broke she wanted to go to the nearest hospital which was within walking distance instead of getting a cab across town to the hospital where she was originally being seen. She remained adamant that she wanted a natural birth unless it would potentially endanger her health or our daughters. She has two friends who were pushed into C-sections both of which ended up having complications due to the procedure. After six or seven hours after her water broke an administrative nurse came in with a shot and said she was going to start inducing labor. My wife pushed against this as she was worried about complications from a C-section. The administrator had a rebuttal to everything, to the point she even started crying. When I continued to hold ground they brought up concerns of spousal abuse. This registered an immediate red flag and luckily I defaulted to "God mode" I asked if we could have a moment to "pray". This bought us enough time to speak with the doctor face-to-face who agreed to wait a few more hours before inducing labor to avoid a C-section. We had a successful natural birth with no side effects. (Hospitals' make 2-3x from a C-section as they do from a natural birth.) (*When asked if it was medically necessary the administrative nurse would only say it was hospital policy and they do the same for everyone else who was on the floor.)
throwitaway222 3y ago
This kinda confirms, unfortunately and sadly, that ChatGPT answers are probably just as good as human answers. And the data collection for your phone call went to training, not into a database where you officially opted out.
- pfist 3y ago
  > This kinda confirms, unfortunately and sadly, that ChatGPT answers are probably just as good as human answers. These people are paid to follow scripts and strict protocols. At best, this may suggest that ChatGPT answers are as good as a call center representative's answers.
nonprofiteer 3y ago
Was it a Toyota?

VHRanger 3y ago

Brand?

batch12 3y ago
Toyota. I still had the sticker- I peeled it off and put it in the manual. The exact text is: VEHICLE DATA TRANSMISSION IS ON! Your vehicle wirelessly transmits location, driving and vehicle health data to deliver your services and for internal research and data analysis. See www.toyota[.]com/privacyvts. To disable, press vehicle's SOS button.
- Kon-Peki 3y ago
  Prepare to be creeped out: https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/
  - janice1999 3y ago
    People seem to unaware of it: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/08/toyota-cars-collecting-and-potentially-sharing-location-data-and-personal-information-choice-says https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/08/toyot...
  - HankB99 3y ago
    Yeah, right at the top > We may modify this Privacy Notice by posting a new version at this website effective on the date of publication. No actual notification needed. Are they screaming to be regulated?
    - colpabar 3y ago
      Isn't this how all ToS work though? They all contain some clause that says "actually we reserve the right to do whatever we want whenever we want and everything you read here is meaningless"
      - giantg2 3y ago
        Yep, and that's why physically defeating the device is always better than relying on the other party to honor their word. Disconnect the wireless module/board and they can't send your data.
        idlephysicist 3y ago
        I've physically disconnected the modem in my Audi, though when it goes to the dealer for a service (still under extended warranty) I cannot help but imagine that they download the data.
- andy99 3y ago
  Similar experience but to be fair at least toyota has a big sticker. Other cars are doing it too and just not telling you. Either way, my next car is going to be a 90s land rover.
  - supportengineer 3y ago
    I found this Facebook group called "Low Miles No Miles" https://www.facebook.com/groups/2066782386864241/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/2066782386864241/ I was very surprised how many people there are who buy cars from the factory and immediately stored them, in the 1990's. In some cases the owners did not even remove any of the factory stickers or plastic. This group must be showing just the tip of the iceberg.

beej71 3y ago

I was looking at the Prius Prime for a next car--thanks for the heads-up!

ProllyInfamous 3y ago
Prius Prime has a single fuse [labeled `DCS`] which, once removed, actually disables the computer module which connects to the two cell antenna.
- beej71 3y ago
  This is excellent news. Thanks!
  - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
    I test drove a Prius Prime, and ended up purchasing a Camry Hybrid (instead). Was less expensive, and is much better on the highway [gets 51+mpg].

arkadiyt 3y ago

If I get a new car I'm just taking the modem out.

derwiki 3y ago
If an insurance company can’t find data on you when they expect it, won’t they just charge you the high risk premium?
- mr_toad 3y ago
  If you won’t tell them whether you have a car alarm or a secure garage they just assume you don’t.
brewdad 3y ago
One of the automakers in the article claims that voids your warranty. It may or may not but enjoy the legal battle should you ever need to make a claim.
- Our_Benefactors 3y ago
  It does not. There are laws against voiding a warranty based on aftermarket modifications made by the end user. This is the case in the USA at least.

gvurrdon 3y ago

I never saw one of those when buying my most recent car (Toyota). But, after creating an account on their website I was able to find this section: Consent Centre E-privacy: Your car data Help us improve our products by sharing car data and diagnostic info. We don’t currently have your consent to use this data. This may be for the following reasons: Your car doesn’t have Connected Services. Contact your dealer to check if they can be added. No (connected) car has been added to your account. Go to My Vehicle, add a car if needed, then connect your car via the Connected Services card. You have a connected car but have yet to consent. Go to My Vehicle, and open the chosen car. You will be requested to give your consent. Toyota thanks you for helping us to improve our products. FWIW, their smartphone app contains a "consent" section with various toggles for the usual reasons (e.g. "sharing data to improve products") and these are all turned off.

paledot 3y ago
I love the attention to detail here, like any customer ever has navigated to this page trying to find out how to give consent to having their data collected.

m463 3y ago

The confusion was likely a scripted response too. I had a friend who worked with call centers, taking orders over the phone. they had a script for everything, and after they quickly took your order, they started with a scripted upsell. If the person balked, they had responses for everything so they could continue. The only way out of the script was if the customer said "I will cancel my order". The call center person would be fired if they did not follow the script.

staplers 3y ago
Xfinity similarly does this if they overcharge you on a contract. They try to upsell on a new (less value) contract for an hour before finally just changing tone and saying "you're right we messed up" and refunding you.
- dylan604 3y ago
  After all, you called them, which shows you're a ripe target. Every sales person knows that. Oh, you thought they were a support person? Maybe sales support.
  - mykehunt 3y ago
    When in doubt try the "God" opt-out. I have found they usually either do not have a scripted rebuttal to this or they are legally not allowed to go against one's religious views. This can also be useful when feeling pressured to make an immediate decision by asking for a moment to "pray". Examples: 1- "God told me to..." While canceling Time Warner Cable I tried cancelling a few times prior. Always met with rebuttals, put on hold to research the account. Either waited on hold for 20 minutes or the call was disconnected. Tried again and gave the reason for cancelling "God told me to" account cancelled immediately. (I have also heard simply saying you're moving out of the service area works too.) 2- "Moment to pray" - Buying time or dissuade an aggressive salesperson. My wife just recently gave birth to our first child. When her water broke she wanted to go to the nearest hospital which was within walking distance instead of getting a cab across town to the hospital where she was originally being seen. She remained adamant that she wanted a natural birth unless it would potentially endanger her health or our daughters. She has two friends who were pushed into C-sections both of which ended up having complications due to the procedure. After six or seven hours after her water broke an administrative nurse came in with a shot and said she was going to start inducing labor. My wife pushed against this as she was worried about complications from a C-section. The administrator had a rebuttal to everything, to the point she even started crying. When I continued to hold ground they brought up concerns of spousal abuse. This registered an immediate red flag and luckily I defaulted to "God mode" I asked if we could have a moment to "pray". This bought us enough time to speak with the doctor face-to-face who agreed to wait a few more hours before inducing labor to avoid a C-section. We had a successful natural birth with no side effects. (Hospitals' make 2-3x from a C-section as they do from a natural birth.) (*When asked if it was medically necessary the administrative nurse would only say it was hospital policy and they do the same for everyone else who was on the floor.)

throwitaway222 3y ago

This kinda confirms, unfortunately and sadly, that ChatGPT answers are probably just as good as human answers. And the data collection for your phone call went to training, not into a database where you officially opted out.

pfist 3y ago
> This kinda confirms, unfortunately and sadly, that ChatGPT answers are probably just as good as human answers. These people are paid to follow scripts and strict protocols. At best, this may suggest that ChatGPT answers are as good as a call center representative's answers.

nonprofiteer 3y ago

Was it a Toyota?