4 ms·

This is why I think we should be seriously considering atmospheric aerosol injection already. Not sure why there aren't more large government funded studies of

This is why I think we should be seriously considering atmospheric aerosol injection already. Not sure why there aren't more large government funded studies of this.

infotainment 3y ago
I believe this was the plot of the movie Snowpiercer. I would be a bit worried about accidental side effects; atmospheric alteration on a large scale seems like a dangerous game.
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  And book Termination Shock. One Billionaire took it upon himself to seed sulfur in upper atmosphere. And Not for global warming, but in The Matrix, humans darkened the skies to fight the machines.
  - nozzlegear 3y ago
    Termination Shock is an excellent book, I'd highly recommend it if you're interested in the genre of "climate fiction" as I am. It deals with the effects of extreme heat in Texas; the rising sea levels in the Netherlands; how unpredictable weather patterns could affect the bread basket of India and the people living there; and much more. Easily one of my favorite books of the last few years.
- seiferteric 3y ago
  > atmospheric alteration on a large scale seems like a dangerous game. Were already doing that...
  - ImHereToVote 3y ago
    Yes, but we are doing the bad kind of alteration. The good kind of alteration is completely untested. /s
ponector 3y ago
Who should pay for it? No one really wants to spend money on something like that. People don't want to spend 0.1% of GDP to help survive people in Ukraine and you think they care how hot is there for the people of Australia?
- seiferteric 3y ago
  Don't we collaborate on things like LHC, ITER, international space-station etc?
- adrianN 3y ago
  Aerosol injection is not very expensive.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    On a planetary scale, literally everything is very expensive.
    - adrianN 3y ago
      It is not very expensive compared to other things we do on a planetary scale.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      It is cheap enough that a single rich dude could cause another ice age, it isn't very expensive.
- ImHereToVote 3y ago
  Is there any evidence to support the case that sending more weapons to Ukraine will spare lives? If so. Shouldn't we prioritize sending weapons to the people of Gaza first, since their casualty numbers are much higher?
  - bongodongobob 3y ago
    Sending aid to Ukraine isn't just a thing we do for fun. It's the tradeoff for them giving up their nuclear arsenal. We said we'd have their backs. Money is probably better than sending people's kids.
gadders 3y ago
I have zero confidence in that working without side effects worse than the disease.
- seiferteric 3y ago
  This is why we should study it...
- moffkalast 3y ago
  Why? It's relatively well studied. Volcanoes erupt all the time and we've done it extensively ourselves as well: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-low-sulphur-shipping-rules-are-affecting-global-warming/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-low-sulphur-shippin...
_heimdall 3y ago
Before we start filling our atmosphere with theoretical solutions, shouldn't we reduce as much of emissions and consumption and possible? We humans consume an insane amount of natural resources. We have built many of our societies around global interdependence. We produce a constant flood of stuff that is consumed quickly and discarded. We could make a big impact simply shifting to more local economies. For example, a recent lead poisoning issue in the US was tracked back to apple sauce pouches sold at the dollar store. Little could be done legally because of how complex the supply chain was. I don't remember all the details, but multiple countries were involved from growing the apples, processing the apple sauces, packaging, etc. We don't need such insane systems all powered by energy consumption. We just need local sources of damn apples for our kids to snack on.
- MandieD 3y ago
  It was apparently intentionally-tainted cinnamon in apple sauce pouches, but confirms your point about the complexity of food supply chains making it more likely for bad stuff to get in: https://www.fda.gov/food/outbreaks-foodborne-illness/investigation-elevated-lead-chromium-levels-cinnamon-applesauce-pouches-november-2023 https://www.fda.gov/food/outbreaks-foodborne-illness/investi...
  - _heimdall 3y ago
    Oh that's an important update I hadn't seen, thanks!
- moffkalast 3y ago
  Frankly it's not one or the other, it's both at the same time as much as possible because we're extremely late to this party.
  - _heimdall 3y ago
    How do we control that? The medical industry has the challenge of having to intervene to a late stage illness with multiple interventions that must be titrated appropriately. They have the benefit of a much smaller scale though, and they've researched and learned from past cases. How do we intervene in the entire planet with multiple modes of change without making things worse? I reach for the solution of removing impact as much as possible mainly because it feels much safer. We can reduce our current level of impact and we're really just getting out of the planets way. There's plenty of risk with regards to human cost as we remove and simplify systems, but at least that's the impact falling more directly in the species that caused the problem in the first place.
mcculley 3y ago
Who do you trust to determine the right amount of aerosol? Some areas will be harmed by temperature increases, some will benefit. Who decides who benefits? This is a classic Tragedy of the Commons. We are underequipped to cooperate.
lm28469 3y ago
"Sir you should stop drinking and smoking or your liver and lungs will die" "It's ok I'll get a liver and lungs transplant :)" We'll really do everything before we consider stopping the root cause lol. And heat isn't even the only issue we're facing
- seiferteric 3y ago
  I think it's more like, you have a viral infection and it's causing a high fever, and that fever is about to kill you. Should the doctor try and bring the fever down or go and research a cure for the virus? Sometimes you have to treat the immediate symptoms first because curing the underlying condition will take too long.

This is why I think we should be seriously considering atmospheric aerosol injection already. Not sure why there aren't more large government funded studies of this.

infotainment 3y ago

I believe this was the plot of the movie Snowpiercer. I would be a bit worried about accidental side effects; atmospheric alteration on a large scale seems like a dangerous game.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
And book Termination Shock. One Billionaire took it upon himself to seed sulfur in upper atmosphere. And Not for global warming, but in The Matrix, humans darkened the skies to fight the machines.
- nozzlegear 3y ago
  Termination Shock is an excellent book, I'd highly recommend it if you're interested in the genre of "climate fiction" as I am. It deals with the effects of extreme heat in Texas; the rising sea levels in the Netherlands; how unpredictable weather patterns could affect the bread basket of India and the people living there; and much more. Easily one of my favorite books of the last few years.
seiferteric 3y ago
> atmospheric alteration on a large scale seems like a dangerous game. Were already doing that...
- ImHereToVote 3y ago
  Yes, but we are doing the bad kind of alteration. The good kind of alteration is completely untested. /s

ponector 3y ago

Who should pay for it? No one really wants to spend money on something like that. People don't want to spend 0.1% of GDP to help survive people in Ukraine and you think they care how hot is there for the people of Australia?

seiferteric 3y ago
Don't we collaborate on things like LHC, ITER, international space-station etc?
adrianN 3y ago
Aerosol injection is not very expensive.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  On a planetary scale, literally everything is very expensive.
  - adrianN 3y ago
    It is not very expensive compared to other things we do on a planetary scale.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    It is cheap enough that a single rich dude could cause another ice age, it isn't very expensive.
ImHereToVote 3y ago
Is there any evidence to support the case that sending more weapons to Ukraine will spare lives? If so. Shouldn't we prioritize sending weapons to the people of Gaza first, since their casualty numbers are much higher?
- bongodongobob 3y ago
  Sending aid to Ukraine isn't just a thing we do for fun. It's the tradeoff for them giving up their nuclear arsenal. We said we'd have their backs. Money is probably better than sending people's kids.

gadders 3y ago

I have zero confidence in that working without side effects worse than the disease.

seiferteric 3y ago
This is why we should study it...
moffkalast 3y ago
Why? It's relatively well studied. Volcanoes erupt all the time and we've done it extensively ourselves as well: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-low-sulphur-shipping-rules-are-affecting-global-warming/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-low-sulphur-shippin...

_heimdall 3y ago

Before we start filling our atmosphere with theoretical solutions, shouldn't we reduce as much of emissions and consumption and possible? We humans consume an insane amount of natural resources. We have built many of our societies around global interdependence. We produce a constant flood of stuff that is consumed quickly and discarded. We could make a big impact simply shifting to more local economies. For example, a recent lead poisoning issue in the US was tracked back to apple sauce pouches sold at the dollar store. Little could be done legally because of how complex the supply chain was. I don't remember all the details, but multiple countries were involved from growing the apples, processing the apple sauces, packaging, etc. We don't need such insane systems all powered by energy consumption. We just need local sources of damn apples for our kids to snack on.

MandieD 3y ago
It was apparently intentionally-tainted cinnamon in apple sauce pouches, but confirms your point about the complexity of food supply chains making it more likely for bad stuff to get in: https://www.fda.gov/food/outbreaks-foodborne-illness/investigation-elevated-lead-chromium-levels-cinnamon-applesauce-pouches-november-2023 https://www.fda.gov/food/outbreaks-foodborne-illness/investi...
- _heimdall 3y ago
  Oh that's an important update I hadn't seen, thanks!
moffkalast 3y ago
Frankly it's not one or the other, it's both at the same time as much as possible because we're extremely late to this party.
- _heimdall 3y ago
  How do we control that? The medical industry has the challenge of having to intervene to a late stage illness with multiple interventions that must be titrated appropriately. They have the benefit of a much smaller scale though, and they've researched and learned from past cases. How do we intervene in the entire planet with multiple modes of change without making things worse? I reach for the solution of removing impact as much as possible mainly because it feels much safer. We can reduce our current level of impact and we're really just getting out of the planets way. There's plenty of risk with regards to human cost as we remove and simplify systems, but at least that's the impact falling more directly in the species that caused the problem in the first place.

mcculley 3y ago

Who do you trust to determine the right amount of aerosol? Some areas will be harmed by temperature increases, some will benefit. Who decides who benefits? This is a classic Tragedy of the Commons. We are underequipped to cooperate.

lm28469 3y ago

"Sir you should stop drinking and smoking or your liver and lungs will die" "It's ok I'll get a liver and lungs transplant :)" We'll really do everything before we consider stopping the root cause lol. And heat isn't even the only issue we're facing

seiferteric 3y ago
I think it's more like, you have a viral infection and it's causing a high fever, and that fever is about to kill you. Should the doctor try and bring the fever down or go and research a cure for the virus? Sometimes you have to treat the immediate symptoms first because curing the underlying condition will take too long.