5 ms·

I did not like this movie. That must be an unpopular opinion, given all the movie’s success. And specifically what I didn’t like was that the film makers could

by mapasj 3y ago

I did not like this movie. That must be an unpopular opinion, given all the movie’s success. And specifically what I didn’t like was that the film makers could have gone in many directions in telling a story about Oppenheimer, but chose to make the RDJ villain central to the plot. The conflict in the film felt forced and unnecessary for telling a good story.

jajko 3y ago
Some people like watching documentaries, some like a bit of drama. This movie catered to the masses, but it catered very very well. Don't expect movie about scientists with complex story span over decades to get much better than this, they have to cut away important stuff and modify characters slightly.
DarkNova6 3y ago
While Nolan is a one of a kind director, his lack of research shows. He essentially adapted the book "American Prometheus" but didn't engage with any material beyond it. Personally, I think the movie is too dramatized to be a documentary and too linear to be true drama. I'd rather have him stick to directing and get an A-class writer instead.
actionfromafar 3y ago
I think Oppenheimer was kept an enigma on purpose. I didn't exactly like the movie but I was somehow very impressed nevertheless. I don't regret seeing it but I might never watch it again.
- sandspar 3y ago
  Even Nolan's worst movies are impressive. That's kind of his genius. He could make a flight to Cincinnati awe-inspiring.
tinco 3y ago
As someone with an interest in the history of physics as I'm sure many people here are, I didn't much like the film either. I liked the renditions of the different physicists and the overall arc of the story, but more like I'd be interested in a documentary. What's impressive about the movie is that they managed to create drama, artistry and tension in what's fundamentally something you can't really make a movie about because in the end it's just a story of some physicists that successfully accomplished something without anyone really opposing them in any material way. I think that's laudable and interesting. But if you would judge the movie just based on its entertainment value, I don't think it would score very high. The Barbie movie, which I just saw 2 weeks ago on my TV was clearly a better movie on I'm pretty sure every aspect, and you could tell it was in the first minute.
- vasco 3y ago
  > What's impressive about the movie is that they managed to create drama, artistry and tension in what's fundamentally something you can't really make a movie about because in the end it's just a story of some physicists that successfully accomplished something without anyone really opposing them in any material way. Feynman made it way more interesting in his book without needing to create fake villains! You could make a whole movie about his shenanigans alone.
  - sandspar 3y ago
    Feynman has a blink-and-you'll-miss-it appearance in the movie. During one of the successful tests, there's a brief shot of a cheerful guy playing the bongos.
    - willis936 3y ago
      He was also the guy in the car that told Teller that the windshield stopped UV. Teller's response was "what stops the glass?"
    - dreamcompiler 3y ago
      Feynman's role in the actual project was pretty limited too. He was not one of the major figures.
- MrScruff 3y ago
  > The Barbie movie, which I just saw 2 weeks ago on my TV was clearly a better movie on I'm pretty sure every aspect, and you could tell it was in the first minute. This is wildly subjective, different people watch movies for very different reasons.
- slily 3y ago
  Calling Barbie a better movie because it's easier to watch is something I didn't expect to witness on HN.
  - 3y ago
telesilla 3y ago
To me this movie showed how Oppenheimer's protests against nuclear proliferation was hushed by the powers of the time, leaving him to be remembered in history as the architect of the most fearsome weapon imaginable, not a brilliant scientist full of regret, becoming anti-proliferation but blackmailed into silence due to earlier communist ties. I was also fascinated to learn that the fear of Germany getting the bomb first was what drove him and so many others to create the worst thing humans have ever created and used. As a non-american, none of this was common knowledge and I welcomed the history lesson, I always wondered why such a brilliant physicist and intelligent person would want to destroy the world but never thought to find a book on the topic (I've since added American Prometheus to my read list). It is shameful he was not allowed a public platform to denounce nuclear arms as strongly as he felt.
- deleted 3y ago
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NoboruWataya 3y ago
This is a pretty common criticism (and I agree with it). To me it felt like the successful test was the obvious dramatic climax of the movie, but then you had another hour of a bunch of guys sitting in a room arguing about security clearance. It could have been shorter, or if they wanted to keep the length they could have explored Oppenheimer's early life in more detail.
- jdub 3y ago
  But the successful test is not even remotely the moral conclusion of the story.
gertrunde 3y ago
Agreed. It felt like 'good' film - i.e. critics and film buffs etc would love it, cinematography etc, but I can't say I actually enjoyed watching the film.
holoduke 3y ago
To be honest I don't know of any good movie last few years. Might be because I am getting old or something.
- somenameforme 3y ago
  Uncommonly known factoid: movie ticket sales have been sharply declining for decades. We hit 'peak Hollywood' in 2002. [1] That's especially remarkable when you consider that the population has continued to increase since then. The 'record breaking sales' since then are mostly a product of inflation alongside a mix of price increases. Here [2] is a table of best selling movies, inflation adjusted. No movie made in the past 25 years, including the endless men in spandex movies, is among the top 10. It's not us - it's Hollywood, but they seem ultimately unable to bring themselves out of this rut. What happened? I suspect a mixture of drugs and politics - the two cancers of the mind. --- [1] - https://www.the-numbers.com/market/ https://www.the-numbers.com/market/ [2] - https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross_adjusted/?adjust_gross_to=2019 https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross_adjus...
  - macintux 3y ago
    I’m not convinced you can draw strong correlations between ticket sales and movie quality, or even movie popularity. DVDs, streaming, high definition TVs…there are a lot of technological improvements that have changed the way we consume media.
    - somenameforme 3y ago
      There's a really interesting poll (that was not so easy to dig up!) here. [1] It's from 2005, so still quite near peak movie, on why Americans aren't going to the movies. The interesting thing about the poll is, as you mentioned, the leading reason for people stated for why they aren't going to the movies anymore is they prefer to watch at home (33%). Yet when the identical question is asked in a slightly different way, you get a very different result. When asked if they would see more movies if they were cheaper, 43% said they would be much more likely. When asked about movies being better quality, 36% said they would be much more likely to see more movies. And that was back in 2005 when movies were still far from the rock bottom current era of spandex, sequels, and remakes! [1] - https://news.gallup.com/poll/17113/What-Will-Get-Americans-Movies.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/17113/What-Will-Get-Americans-M...
linhns 3y ago
What directions could they have gone to? Besides, this movie is not just about Oppenheimer, it’s also about the thirst of power of bureaucrats.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
> chose to make the RDJ villain central to the plot The movie is really about the conflict between a small-souled bureaucrat and a physics genius. The question is: what could a different story have been? I'm not sure there is enough juice in the "personal guilt" angle, and I don't think the "communist spie" angle is viable in today's Hollywood, given the general political leanings and, well, who the actual traitors were. Oppenheimer's direct involvement hasn't been conclusively proven (unlike eg Leo Szilard and a myriad others), so it comes down to how much you believe Pavel Sudoplatov's testimony, who was an NKVD general.
heresie-dabord 3y ago
> That must be an unpopular opinion, given all the movie’s success. Maybe not so much unpopular as outside the (lucrative) bubble. [1] The economic goal of the film/television industry is to make a thing that its audience will watch. Then this result is celebrated (multiple times) until the final event, a sort of Super Bowl where statuettes are thrown for touchdowns. It's a huge global business, something on the order of $130 b USD. [2] It's also interesting to read the section, "Largest markets by box office revenue" in the referenced article. [2] If you enjoy the early era of Hollywood, this film is a treat: https://archive.org/details/hollywoodparty1934originaltheatricalprintrecreation https://archive.org/details/hollywoodparty1934originaltheatr... [1] _ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_the_United_States#/media/File:Percentage_of_the_US_Population_that_went_to_the_Cinema_on_Average,_Weekly,_1930-2000.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_the_United_States#/m... [2] _ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_industry

by mapasj 3y ago

jajko 3y ago

Some people like watching documentaries, some like a bit of drama. This movie catered to the masses, but it catered very very well. Don't expect movie about scientists with complex story span over decades to get much better than this, they have to cut away important stuff and modify characters slightly.

DarkNova6 3y ago

While Nolan is a one of a kind director, his lack of research shows. He essentially adapted the book "American Prometheus" but didn't engage with any material beyond it. Personally, I think the movie is too dramatized to be a documentary and too linear to be true drama. I'd rather have him stick to directing and get an A-class writer instead.

actionfromafar 3y ago

I think Oppenheimer was kept an enigma on purpose. I didn't exactly like the movie but I was somehow very impressed nevertheless. I don't regret seeing it but I might never watch it again.

sandspar 3y ago
Even Nolan's worst movies are impressive. That's kind of his genius. He could make a flight to Cincinnati awe-inspiring.

tinco 3y ago

As someone with an interest in the history of physics as I'm sure many people here are, I didn't much like the film either. I liked the renditions of the different physicists and the overall arc of the story, but more like I'd be interested in a documentary. What's impressive about the movie is that they managed to create drama, artistry and tension in what's fundamentally something you can't really make a movie about because in the end it's just a story of some physicists that successfully accomplished something without anyone really opposing them in any material way. I think that's laudable and interesting. But if you would judge the movie just based on its entertainment value, I don't think it would score very high. The Barbie movie, which I just saw 2 weeks ago on my TV was clearly a better movie on I'm pretty sure every aspect, and you could tell it was in the first minute.

vasco 3y ago
> What's impressive about the movie is that they managed to create drama, artistry and tension in what's fundamentally something you can't really make a movie about because in the end it's just a story of some physicists that successfully accomplished something without anyone really opposing them in any material way. Feynman made it way more interesting in his book without needing to create fake villains! You could make a whole movie about his shenanigans alone.
- sandspar 3y ago
  Feynman has a blink-and-you'll-miss-it appearance in the movie. During one of the successful tests, there's a brief shot of a cheerful guy playing the bongos.
  - willis936 3y ago
    He was also the guy in the car that told Teller that the windshield stopped UV. Teller's response was "what stops the glass?"
  - dreamcompiler 3y ago
    Feynman's role in the actual project was pretty limited too. He was not one of the major figures.
MrScruff 3y ago
> The Barbie movie, which I just saw 2 weeks ago on my TV was clearly a better movie on I'm pretty sure every aspect, and you could tell it was in the first minute. This is wildly subjective, different people watch movies for very different reasons.
slily 3y ago
Calling Barbie a better movie because it's easier to watch is something I didn't expect to witness on HN.
- 3y ago

telesilla 3y ago

To me this movie showed how Oppenheimer's protests against nuclear proliferation was hushed by the powers of the time, leaving him to be remembered in history as the architect of the most fearsome weapon imaginable, not a brilliant scientist full of regret, becoming anti-proliferation but blackmailed into silence due to earlier communist ties. I was also fascinated to learn that the fear of Germany getting the bomb first was what drove him and so many others to create the worst thing humans have ever created and used. As a non-american, none of this was common knowledge and I welcomed the history lesson, I always wondered why such a brilliant physicist and intelligent person would want to destroy the world but never thought to find a book on the topic (I've since added American Prometheus to my read list). It is shameful he was not allowed a public platform to denounce nuclear arms as strongly as he felt.

deleted 3y ago
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deleted 3y ago

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NoboruWataya 3y ago

This is a pretty common criticism (and I agree with it). To me it felt like the successful test was the obvious dramatic climax of the movie, but then you had another hour of a bunch of guys sitting in a room arguing about security clearance. It could have been shorter, or if they wanted to keep the length they could have explored Oppenheimer's early life in more detail.

jdub 3y ago
But the successful test is not even remotely the moral conclusion of the story.

gertrunde 3y ago

Agreed. It felt like 'good' film - i.e. critics and film buffs etc would love it, cinematography etc, but I can't say I actually enjoyed watching the film.

holoduke 3y ago

To be honest I don't know of any good movie last few years. Might be because I am getting old or something.

somenameforme 3y ago
Uncommonly known factoid: movie ticket sales have been sharply declining for decades. We hit 'peak Hollywood' in 2002. [1] That's especially remarkable when you consider that the population has continued to increase since then. The 'record breaking sales' since then are mostly a product of inflation alongside a mix of price increases. Here [2] is a table of best selling movies, inflation adjusted. No movie made in the past 25 years, including the endless men in spandex movies, is among the top 10. It's not us - it's Hollywood, but they seem ultimately unable to bring themselves out of this rut. What happened? I suspect a mixture of drugs and politics - the two cancers of the mind. --- [1] - https://www.the-numbers.com/market/ https://www.the-numbers.com/market/ [2] - https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross_adjusted/?adjust_gross_to=2019 https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross_adjus...
- macintux 3y ago
  I’m not convinced you can draw strong correlations between ticket sales and movie quality, or even movie popularity. DVDs, streaming, high definition TVs…there are a lot of technological improvements that have changed the way we consume media.
  - somenameforme 3y ago
    There's a really interesting poll (that was not so easy to dig up!) here. [1] It's from 2005, so still quite near peak movie, on why Americans aren't going to the movies. The interesting thing about the poll is, as you mentioned, the leading reason for people stated for why they aren't going to the movies anymore is they prefer to watch at home (33%). Yet when the identical question is asked in a slightly different way, you get a very different result. When asked if they would see more movies if they were cheaper, 43% said they would be much more likely. When asked about movies being better quality, 36% said they would be much more likely to see more movies. And that was back in 2005 when movies were still far from the rock bottom current era of spandex, sequels, and remakes! [1] - https://news.gallup.com/poll/17113/What-Will-Get-Americans-Movies.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/17113/What-Will-Get-Americans-M...

linhns 3y ago

What directions could they have gone to? Besides, this movie is not just about Oppenheimer, it’s also about the thirst of power of bureaucrats.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

MrBuddyCasino 3y ago

> chose to make the RDJ villain central to the plot The movie is really about the conflict between a small-souled bureaucrat and a physics genius. The question is: what could a different story have been? I'm not sure there is enough juice in the "personal guilt" angle, and I don't think the "communist spie" angle is viable in today's Hollywood, given the general political leanings and, well, who the actual traitors were. Oppenheimer's direct involvement hasn't been conclusively proven (unlike eg Leo Szilard and a myriad others), so it comes down to how much you believe Pavel Sudoplatov's testimony, who was an NKVD general.

heresie-dabord 3y ago

> That must be an unpopular opinion, given all the movie’s success. Maybe not so much unpopular as outside the (lucrative) bubble. [1] The economic goal of the film/television industry is to make a thing that its audience will watch. Then this result is celebrated (multiple times) until the final event, a sort of Super Bowl where statuettes are thrown for touchdowns. It's a huge global business, something on the order of $130 b USD. [2] It's also interesting to read the section, "Largest markets by box office revenue" in the referenced article. [2] If you enjoy the early era of Hollywood, this film is a treat: https://archive.org/details/hollywoodparty1934originaltheatricalprintrecreation https://archive.org/details/hollywoodparty1934originaltheatr... [1] _ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_the_United_States#/media/File:Percentage_of_the_US_Population_that_went_to_the_Cinema_on_Average,_Weekly,_1930-2000.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_the_United_States#/m... [2] _ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_industry