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I look at our friends and peer aged family who have kids, and can’t help but see them just tired. Physically they are perpetually exhausted and visibly more age

I look at our friends and peer aged family who have kids, and can’t help but see them just tired. Physically they are perpetually exhausted and visibly more aged. Financially, unless they were pretty well off before having a child, they’re struggling. Do they look unhappy? I don’t know. All of our friends with children post pictures of their kids in mundane everyday settings nonstop on Instagram so I almost have too much information on how they live, at least outwardly. But it’s probably taboo to openly say you’re unhappy about having a child. The closest I’ve come is seeing some cracks while talking to one of my best friends about how tired he is. Who will be more happy when we’re 60 or 70? Even that I’m not sure. I know plenty of elderly people who have little to no contact with their adult kids. Some with kids who are estranged and hate them. Is that any better than not having kids at all?

RhysU 3y ago
Those who have children will never wonder what could have been. Even a horrific outcome answers that question. There is no other way to do do.
- silverquiet 3y ago
  Anyone can wonder what might have been - those with 2 children could wonder how more would have changed their lives, or could wonder what might have been had they had none. Some changes we make to our lives forever close off other paths.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Have kids, partner and I occasionally talk about what life would’ve been like if we made different choices. We’re on rails now until they’re adults, but we try to help others make different choices when the topic comes up and we are asked for our opinion based on life experience. Are you wealthy? Robust family support? Low volatility in your living and work situations? Strong relationship that will endure what children incur? Might be fine; without those components, you’re gonna have a bad time (statistically speaking and from a preponderance of the data). > There is no other way to do do. You can come to a conclusion you made a poor choice and still choose to do the best you can because it’s the right thing to do. https://thehill.com/business/3608647-new-estimate-projects-cost-of-raising-a-child-at-310k/ https://thehill.com/business/3608647-new-estimate-projects-c... http://blog.dol.gov/2023/01/24/new-childcare-data-shows-prices-are-untenable-for-families http://blog.dol.gov/2023/01/24/new-childcare-data-shows-pric... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3171291/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3171291/ https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.901362/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8062063/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8062063/ (n=1, ymmv)
xyzelement 3y ago
If one’s goal in life is to be “less tired” then for sure having young children does not contribute to that goal. If one wants something more like the feeling of a life meaningfully lived - it will take energy no matter what form that meaning takes. Fwiw I am definitely more tired as a parent then when I was single but it’s what I would call “good tired” - work you are choosing to do.
- adriand 3y ago
  I agree with this. Also, the period of time where children are very tiring is relatively short, perhaps 2-3 years per child. Yes, this adds up when you have 2 or 3 children, but there is also a lot of joy to leaven the fatigue. Then you have the period before they are 11 or so, when they are just pure magic to be around. You get to see the world through their eyes. You get to be around someone who is always eager to learn from you and who thinks you’re amazing. And then you have a teenager and your relationship matures and deepens (hopefully anyway) and although there are often difficulties, there can also be a kind of friendship there with deep meaningfulness. And/or someone who will make fun of you and take your ego down a peg or two. For me, finding meaning in life has long been a struggle. Is it the pursuit of pleasure? Is it the pursuit of knowledge? So much of all that is ephemeral. How about, instead, sacrifice? Putting others first? Investing in future generations? One thing I do believe for sure: having a child makes most people wiser and less self-centered and selfish. That alone is worth the fatigue.
  - decafninja 3y ago
    What is the goal of having kids though, from a personal perspective? Sample size of 1, but even looking around my generally stable middle to upper middle class social circle, I feel like despite putting your best effort in, it’s a 50:50 coin toss that you’ll be in your later years with a wonderful relationship with your adult children versus having them be virtual strangers or even estranged. Is that considered meaningful, and worth the sacrifices? I see a lot of elderly people who never see or hear from their kids other than a phone call during birthdays and maybe a visit during holidays, even if they live not too far away. I would hate to be in that kind of relationship with my future child. My wife and I see our parents multiple times a month, frequently eat out together, and even air travel together at least once a year. I would love that kind of relationship with my child, but I feel this is a massive edge case, not the norm, especially in American society.
ProllyInfamous 3y ago
>But it’s probably taboo to openly say you’re unhappy about having a child. Imagine (like I never have to) that the man who raised you says to you: "if I could go back in time I definitely wouldn't have children again." Most honest thing he ever said. I agree with him.

RhysU 3y ago

Those who have children will never wonder what could have been. Even a horrific outcome answers that question. There is no other way to do do.

silverquiet 3y ago
Anyone can wonder what might have been - those with 2 children could wonder how more would have changed their lives, or could wonder what might have been had they had none. Some changes we make to our lives forever close off other paths.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Have kids, partner and I occasionally talk about what life would’ve been like if we made different choices. We’re on rails now until they’re adults, but we try to help others make different choices when the topic comes up and we are asked for our opinion based on life experience. Are you wealthy? Robust family support? Low volatility in your living and work situations? Strong relationship that will endure what children incur? Might be fine; without those components, you’re gonna have a bad time (statistically speaking and from a preponderance of the data). > There is no other way to do do. You can come to a conclusion you made a poor choice and still choose to do the best you can because it’s the right thing to do. https://thehill.com/business/3608647-new-estimate-projects-cost-of-raising-a-child-at-310k/ https://thehill.com/business/3608647-new-estimate-projects-c... http://blog.dol.gov/2023/01/24/new-childcare-data-shows-prices-are-untenable-for-families http://blog.dol.gov/2023/01/24/new-childcare-data-shows-pric... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3171291/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3171291/ https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.901362/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8062063/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8062063/ (n=1, ymmv)

xyzelement 3y ago

If one’s goal in life is to be “less tired” then for sure having young children does not contribute to that goal. If one wants something more like the feeling of a life meaningfully lived - it will take energy no matter what form that meaning takes. Fwiw I am definitely more tired as a parent then when I was single but it’s what I would call “good tired” - work you are choosing to do.

adriand 3y ago
I agree with this. Also, the period of time where children are very tiring is relatively short, perhaps 2-3 years per child. Yes, this adds up when you have 2 or 3 children, but there is also a lot of joy to leaven the fatigue. Then you have the period before they are 11 or so, when they are just pure magic to be around. You get to see the world through their eyes. You get to be around someone who is always eager to learn from you and who thinks you’re amazing. And then you have a teenager and your relationship matures and deepens (hopefully anyway) and although there are often difficulties, there can also be a kind of friendship there with deep meaningfulness. And/or someone who will make fun of you and take your ego down a peg or two. For me, finding meaning in life has long been a struggle. Is it the pursuit of pleasure? Is it the pursuit of knowledge? So much of all that is ephemeral. How about, instead, sacrifice? Putting others first? Investing in future generations? One thing I do believe for sure: having a child makes most people wiser and less self-centered and selfish. That alone is worth the fatigue.
- decafninja 3y ago
  What is the goal of having kids though, from a personal perspective? Sample size of 1, but even looking around my generally stable middle to upper middle class social circle, I feel like despite putting your best effort in, it’s a 50:50 coin toss that you’ll be in your later years with a wonderful relationship with your adult children versus having them be virtual strangers or even estranged. Is that considered meaningful, and worth the sacrifices? I see a lot of elderly people who never see or hear from their kids other than a phone call during birthdays and maybe a visit during holidays, even if they live not too far away. I would hate to be in that kind of relationship with my future child. My wife and I see our parents multiple times a month, frequently eat out together, and even air travel together at least once a year. I would love that kind of relationship with my child, but I feel this is a massive edge case, not the norm, especially in American society.

ProllyInfamous 3y ago

>But it’s probably taboo to openly say you’re unhappy about having a child. Imagine (like I never have to) that the man who raised you says to you: "if I could go back in time I definitely wouldn't have children again." Most honest thing he ever said. I agree with him.