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I don’t totally get it but somehow in the last few decades the narrative crept in that it is not good for you and not good for the world if you chose to have ch

I don’t totally get it but somehow in the last few decades the narrative crept in that it is not good for you and not good for the world if you chose to have children. It’s the kind of thing where childless people will lecture you on the impossibility of having kids all day long and meanwhile there’s someone in exactly the same situation living next door who’s got 3-4 kids and is way happier and more fulfilled. Recently I started to think of religion as a sort of Chesterton a fence. We thought all the focus on the family in religion is just quaint but perhaps it’s just codification of safeguards that allowed a wiser minority to escape the previous analogous collapse.

deleted 3y ago
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silverquiet 3y ago
I don't doubt that religion has important social functions that propagated it and the societies that believed in them (memetic evolution in addition to genetic evolution). The problem is there's a lot of unbelievable stuff (as in I'm literally unable to believe in them) that seems required to tie the whole thing together. For instance, that I don't believe in L Ron Hubbard's idea of Thetans which seems like a core tenant of the Scientology religion.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  Not re Scientology specifically but have you tried to go deep to understand, or is the inability to believe based on superficial secular knowledge?
  - silverquiet 3y ago
    I'd say it's based on a childhood of attempted indoctrination into a few Christian denominations, primarily by my Catholic parents. Comically enough, I told them I was an atheist when I was 7 years old, but either they think I forgot, or they forgot it themselves. Either way I went to the church and Sunday school for the required 18 years and did the rituals I was supposed to. Nowadays I just go with them once in awhile to keep them happy and I don't talk about it with them. I think mainly it was the science denial that other Christian denominations engage in that put me off the whole thing as a child, but as I learned more about the religion as I grew up, I also stopped believing that (almost) anyone really believes in them; few of the followers of Jesus seem to want to replicate his radical love and compassion. Scientology just seems like one most people agree is unbelievable.
XorNot 3y ago
> who’s got 3-4 kids and is way happier and more fulfilled. Or maybe different life goals are valid for different people, and there's no one true path to happiness and you need to make up your own mind? Just maybe? For some reason this topic invariably includes a bunch of people lecturing everyone else about what they should do - or mistaking someone discussing their own preferences as judging there's. Someone saying "I don't think I could cope with having children" isn't telling you that you couldn't cope - though you might do well to consider your own expectations. I have a child, and I would never presume to tell anyone they definitely should or shouldn't have their own children. I will happily relate my feelings on the experience so far if asked.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  I agree with what you are saying but that’s not what I am talking about on the comment you are replying to. Discussing one’s choices is different than painting a topic with a broad brush and some of the anti kid voices are hysterical in their tone and persistence. It’s the difference between “I chose not to have children because…” and “we are screwed nobody can afford to have a cat much less a kid and the world is going to end next month anyway”
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  >Or maybe different life goals are valid for different people, and there's no one true path to happiness and you need to make up your own mind? Just maybe? You hit the nail on the head with a megaton hammer. I am sick of dingbats who insist I marry and have children. Fuck off and mind your own business, I say to them. I have many things I want to do in life and not enough time to do them all, let alone with time wasted to concentrated bullshit I quite literally don't give a fuck about. Life is way too short.
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    I suppose I am one of those dingbats :) But I have a quick question for you, I see from your comment history that you're Japanese and this matters to you at least to some extent. I see references to the desire for your culture to be understood and honored, for being able to relate to concepts like "<your country> first" etc. // I have many things I want to do in life and not enough time to do them all, let alone with time wasted to concentrated bullshit I quite literally don't give a fuck about. So, I've been to Japan a few times and as much as I love everything about it, seeing the obvious prevalence of old people doing stuff and maintaining the way of life raises the super obvious question - who is going to continue any of these? If Japan and its culture matter, then as someone who cares about it, are you totally fine into it fading away into obscurity in the next few decades? The answer could be "yes, that's not what I care about" and that's fine I am just curious if that's your answer. But I am also curious on the flip side the sentiment of someone who on one hand cares about their country/culture but on the other side "literally doesn't give a fuck" about probably the only thing in your control to help it. Again not trying to preach what is right here, asking the question of how you hold these two things in your head?

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silverquiet 3y ago

I don't doubt that religion has important social functions that propagated it and the societies that believed in them (memetic evolution in addition to genetic evolution). The problem is there's a lot of unbelievable stuff (as in I'm literally unable to believe in them) that seems required to tie the whole thing together. For instance, that I don't believe in L Ron Hubbard's idea of Thetans which seems like a core tenant of the Scientology religion.

xyzelement 3y ago
Not re Scientology specifically but have you tried to go deep to understand, or is the inability to believe based on superficial secular knowledge?
- silverquiet 3y ago
  I'd say it's based on a childhood of attempted indoctrination into a few Christian denominations, primarily by my Catholic parents. Comically enough, I told them I was an atheist when I was 7 years old, but either they think I forgot, or they forgot it themselves. Either way I went to the church and Sunday school for the required 18 years and did the rituals I was supposed to. Nowadays I just go with them once in awhile to keep them happy and I don't talk about it with them. I think mainly it was the science denial that other Christian denominations engage in that put me off the whole thing as a child, but as I learned more about the religion as I grew up, I also stopped believing that (almost) anyone really believes in them; few of the followers of Jesus seem to want to replicate his radical love and compassion. Scientology just seems like one most people agree is unbelievable.

XorNot 3y ago

> who’s got 3-4 kids and is way happier and more fulfilled. Or maybe different life goals are valid for different people, and there's no one true path to happiness and you need to make up your own mind? Just maybe? For some reason this topic invariably includes a bunch of people lecturing everyone else about what they should do - or mistaking someone discussing their own preferences as judging there's. Someone saying "I don't think I could cope with having children" isn't telling you that you couldn't cope - though you might do well to consider your own expectations. I have a child, and I would never presume to tell anyone they definitely should or shouldn't have their own children. I will happily relate my feelings on the experience so far if asked.

xyzelement 3y ago
I agree with what you are saying but that’s not what I am talking about on the comment you are replying to. Discussing one’s choices is different than painting a topic with a broad brush and some of the anti kid voices are hysterical in their tone and persistence. It’s the difference between “I chose not to have children because…” and “we are screwed nobody can afford to have a cat much less a kid and the world is going to end next month anyway”
Dalewyn 3y ago
>Or maybe different life goals are valid for different people, and there's no one true path to happiness and you need to make up your own mind? Just maybe? You hit the nail on the head with a megaton hammer. I am sick of dingbats who insist I marry and have children. Fuck off and mind your own business, I say to them. I have many things I want to do in life and not enough time to do them all, let alone with time wasted to concentrated bullshit I quite literally don't give a fuck about. Life is way too short.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  I suppose I am one of those dingbats :) But I have a quick question for you, I see from your comment history that you're Japanese and this matters to you at least to some extent. I see references to the desire for your culture to be understood and honored, for being able to relate to concepts like "<your country> first" etc. // I have many things I want to do in life and not enough time to do them all, let alone with time wasted to concentrated bullshit I quite literally don't give a fuck about. So, I've been to Japan a few times and as much as I love everything about it, seeing the obvious prevalence of old people doing stuff and maintaining the way of life raises the super obvious question - who is going to continue any of these? If Japan and its culture matter, then as someone who cares about it, are you totally fine into it fading away into obscurity in the next few decades? The answer could be "yes, that's not what I care about" and that's fine I am just curious if that's your answer. But I am also curious on the flip side the sentiment of someone who on one hand cares about their country/culture but on the other side "literally doesn't give a fuck" about probably the only thing in your control to help it. Again not trying to preach what is right here, asking the question of how you hold these two things in your head?