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Well China set the precedent, they did ban Google etc in China. India banned TikTok too. Will have to see how all of this will pan out.

quyleanh 3y ago
No, China didn’t ban Google or Facebook… China wants these companies play its rules, and these companies choose to not play. It’s not a ban. Look at many Europe companies and Microsoft.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  How is that fundamentally different from a ban? You could phrase it thus: "Here are our rules we want you to follow. If you choose not to, you are banned from operating in our country" "We cannot follow your rules because those rules are unacceptable to us / would undermine our business model / would compromise our position in other countries we care about more / insert other reason here" "Then you are banned"
  - quyleanh 3y ago
    A ban means when you operate in a country, you violate their rule, or whatever they call rule, then you are banned. In this case, you haven’t operated in this country, the government of this country tells you that if you want to operate, you have to follow rule a, rule b… Then you choose to not follow these rules, and quit. These are different. Another example is you are operating in a country and not violating any rule from the very beginning. One day when you are strong enough and the government of this country feels you’re threaten. Then they tells you that you have to sell your branch in their country, if not you will be banned. Now you get it?
- khuey 3y ago
  Right, which is why the US Congress is looking to pass a rule that says "don't be beholden to the Communist Party". Then Chinese companies can either choose to play or leave.
  - quyleanh 3y ago
    No one is beholden to anyone in this war. With this kind of situation, a "threaten" company has no choice but to take the less bad option. And people will not understand the real reason or what actually threatening. The ridiculous is US was always the freedom symbol for everything. I wonder if such kind of freedom only exists when US is the strongest one and others are far behind? But it's understandable that the US election day is coming.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
Balkanized social media networks.
- porphyra 3y ago
  It's a tragedy for sharing human knowledge. Say what you want about China, but there's a huge amount of amazing stuff there that the Western world just doesn't know about. Art, architecture, science, technology, etc. Think about how much human knowledge in Discord servers is hidden from search engines --- in China there's orders of magnitude more knowledge hidden in Wechat, Xiaohongshu, Douyin, etc.
  - imiric 3y ago
    > in China there's orders of magnitude more knowledge hidden in Wechat, Xiaohongshu, Douyin, etc. I wouldn't refer to highly censored information, disinformation, and discourse controlled by the CCP as "knowledge". Similarly for western social media. While they're not directly controlled by governments, each platform has its own biases and algorithms that enforce their values and beliefs on the information hosted on their servers. These are not public squares that protect "freedom of speech", regardless of what they may claim. The knowledge found on these sites is of minimal value, and most of it is drowned by the noise produced by the vast majority of their users and bots.
    - porphyra 3y ago
      What??? there's tons of valid information there about all sorts of topics not even remotely related to political stuff that would get censored. There's food, technology, science, whatever. I mean sure there's noise in the form of memes like all social media sites, but calling it "minimal value" is pretty extreme. To take one example, I use Xiaohongshu to read about camera lenses. There's a lot of good information that's not available on Western platforms (optical simulations, anecdotes about rare lenses, etc).
      - imiric 3y ago
        Perhaps "minimal value" is wrongly phrased. After all, if you find great value in these sites, I can't contradict your experience. My point is that most content posted on these platforms is heavily modified to game and appease the algorithms that drive engagement. So you never really know if something is factual and honest. Add to that the fact that these platforms promote content that is actively harmful to its users, and to society as a whole, and I doubt whether whatever valuable information is on them is really worth searching for and consuming. Chances are that you would be able to find the same information elsewhere, without risking your sanity. That said, I do have an extremely negative view of all social media, and actively avoid it, so I concede that I may be missing out. :)
BeFlatXIII 3y ago
How easy is the Indian TikTok ban to circumvent?
- execat 3y ago
  Instagram reels have completely replaced Tiktok. No one around me misses Tiktok.
- contravariant 3y ago
  For an app that relies on network effect I'd imagine 'just hard enough'.
- addicted 3y ago
  TikTok doesn’t exist in India essentially. And no one misses it. It’s as pointless and substitutable as any other social network today.
- fakedang 3y ago
  Replaced by Reels basically.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> China set the precedent, they did ban Google etc in China. India banned TikTok too And to clarify, those were bans. This is not. TikTok just needs to be sold to a non-foreign adversary country.
- TMWNN 3y ago
  >And to clarify, those were bans. This is not. TikTok just needs to be sold to a non-foreign adversary country. If TikTok were a Canadian, British, French, German, Korean, Japanese, or Taiwanese company, the US government wouldn't feel the need to intervene in the first place.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > If TikTok were a Canadian, British, French, German, Korean, Japanese, or Taiwanese company, the US government wouldn't feel the need to intervene in the first place This bill makes that explicit. TikTok doesn't have to be sold to an American. It could be sold to any of the above, and it would comply with the proposed law.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- snehk 3y ago
  To clarify, those were not bans. They were decisions by companies not to follow the laws that every other company in that country has to follow as well.
- foverzar 3y ago
  Wait, didn't that already happen during Trumps presidency.
ein0p 3y ago
I’m not referring to China, that case was settled long time ago. I’m talking about Europe and the rest of Asia, South America, Canada. If you think about it, allowing a foreign state unfettered influence over public opinion (as well as near total internet surveillance) is an utterly insane thing to do.
probably_satan 3y ago
MTG is bananas but she's right, why start at tiktok when there are battalions of military aged Chinese males crossing the border through Mexico, scores of Chinese tech companies operating in the US legally, and companies/politicians (like Microsoft and the Clintons) who sold America out to China decades ago. Tiktok ban is almost superficial

quyleanh 3y ago

No, China didn’t ban Google or Facebook… China wants these companies play its rules, and these companies choose to not play. It’s not a ban. Look at many Europe companies and Microsoft.

bluefirebrand 3y ago
How is that fundamentally different from a ban? You could phrase it thus: "Here are our rules we want you to follow. If you choose not to, you are banned from operating in our country" "We cannot follow your rules because those rules are unacceptable to us / would undermine our business model / would compromise our position in other countries we care about more / insert other reason here" "Then you are banned"
- quyleanh 3y ago
  A ban means when you operate in a country, you violate their rule, or whatever they call rule, then you are banned. In this case, you haven’t operated in this country, the government of this country tells you that if you want to operate, you have to follow rule a, rule b… Then you choose to not follow these rules, and quit. These are different. Another example is you are operating in a country and not violating any rule from the very beginning. One day when you are strong enough and the government of this country feels you’re threaten. Then they tells you that you have to sell your branch in their country, if not you will be banned. Now you get it?
khuey 3y ago
Right, which is why the US Congress is looking to pass a rule that says "don't be beholden to the Communist Party". Then Chinese companies can either choose to play or leave.
- quyleanh 3y ago
  No one is beholden to anyone in this war. With this kind of situation, a "threaten" company has no choice but to take the less bad option. And people will not understand the real reason or what actually threatening. The ridiculous is US was always the freedom symbol for everything. I wonder if such kind of freedom only exists when US is the strongest one and others are far behind? But it's understandable that the US election day is coming.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

Balkanized social media networks.

porphyra 3y ago
It's a tragedy for sharing human knowledge. Say what you want about China, but there's a huge amount of amazing stuff there that the Western world just doesn't know about. Art, architecture, science, technology, etc. Think about how much human knowledge in Discord servers is hidden from search engines --- in China there's orders of magnitude more knowledge hidden in Wechat, Xiaohongshu, Douyin, etc.
- imiric 3y ago
  > in China there's orders of magnitude more knowledge hidden in Wechat, Xiaohongshu, Douyin, etc. I wouldn't refer to highly censored information, disinformation, and discourse controlled by the CCP as "knowledge". Similarly for western social media. While they're not directly controlled by governments, each platform has its own biases and algorithms that enforce their values and beliefs on the information hosted on their servers. These are not public squares that protect "freedom of speech", regardless of what they may claim. The knowledge found on these sites is of minimal value, and most of it is drowned by the noise produced by the vast majority of their users and bots.
  - porphyra 3y ago
    What??? there's tons of valid information there about all sorts of topics not even remotely related to political stuff that would get censored. There's food, technology, science, whatever. I mean sure there's noise in the form of memes like all social media sites, but calling it "minimal value" is pretty extreme. To take one example, I use Xiaohongshu to read about camera lenses. There's a lot of good information that's not available on Western platforms (optical simulations, anecdotes about rare lenses, etc).
    - imiric 3y ago
      Perhaps "minimal value" is wrongly phrased. After all, if you find great value in these sites, I can't contradict your experience. My point is that most content posted on these platforms is heavily modified to game and appease the algorithms that drive engagement. So you never really know if something is factual and honest. Add to that the fact that these platforms promote content that is actively harmful to its users, and to society as a whole, and I doubt whether whatever valuable information is on them is really worth searching for and consuming. Chances are that you would be able to find the same information elsewhere, without risking your sanity. That said, I do have an extremely negative view of all social media, and actively avoid it, so I concede that I may be missing out. :)

BeFlatXIII 3y ago

How easy is the Indian TikTok ban to circumvent?

execat 3y ago
Instagram reels have completely replaced Tiktok. No one around me misses Tiktok.
contravariant 3y ago
For an app that relies on network effect I'd imagine 'just hard enough'.
addicted 3y ago
TikTok doesn’t exist in India essentially. And no one misses it. It’s as pointless and substitutable as any other social network today.
fakedang 3y ago
Replaced by Reels basically.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> China set the precedent, they did ban Google etc in China. India banned TikTok too And to clarify, those were bans. This is not. TikTok just needs to be sold to a non-foreign adversary country.

TMWNN 3y ago
>And to clarify, those were bans. This is not. TikTok just needs to be sold to a non-foreign adversary country. If TikTok were a Canadian, British, French, German, Korean, Japanese, or Taiwanese company, the US government wouldn't feel the need to intervene in the first place.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > If TikTok were a Canadian, British, French, German, Korean, Japanese, or Taiwanese company, the US government wouldn't feel the need to intervene in the first place This bill makes that explicit. TikTok doesn't have to be sold to an American. It could be sold to any of the above, and it would comply with the proposed law.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
snehk 3y ago
To clarify, those were not bans. They were decisions by companies not to follow the laws that every other company in that country has to follow as well.
foverzar 3y ago
Wait, didn't that already happen during Trumps presidency.

ein0p 3y ago

I’m not referring to China, that case was settled long time ago. I’m talking about Europe and the rest of Asia, South America, Canada. If you think about it, allowing a foreign state unfettered influence over public opinion (as well as near total internet surveillance) is an utterly insane thing to do.

probably_satan 3y ago

MTG is bananas but she's right, why start at tiktok when there are battalions of military aged Chinese males crossing the border through Mexico, scores of Chinese tech companies operating in the US legally, and companies/politicians (like Microsoft and the Clintons) who sold America out to China decades ago. Tiktok ban is almost superficial