6 ms·

I have a different theory, having lived in both places. Police in America seem to be willing to escalate a confrontation or "chase" to almost any level in order

I have a different theory, having lived in both places. Police in America seem to be willing to escalate a confrontation or "chase" to almost any level in order to prevent a bad guy from getting away. Where I lived (near DC) a police officer stood in front of a car to prevent an unarmed teenager from leaving an IHOP without paying the bill, when the kids wouldn't stop, he shot up the car, killing a passenger(1). Sometimes, when the offense is minor its OK to let the bad guy get away. Firing repeatedly at a moving vehicle in a crowded parking lot is never ok, even if someone might get away with murder. Polizei seemed much more calmly methodical and much less cowboyish. I can't imagine this situation occurring in Germany. (1)http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/27/AR2006022701515.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02...

brazzy 15y ago
I think you're right. It's a common trope in German crime shows on TV to see the police chase a dangerous criminal on foot with their gun drawn and then watch in frustration as they get away - but not shoot at them. > Sometimes, when the offense is minor its OK to let the bad guy get away. Especially since, with a bit of methodical work, you usually have a good chance of catching them later.
- noonespecial 15y ago
  Indeed. If only cars had some sort of unique identifier attached to them somewhere easily visible so you could simply discover after the fact who owned them...
- tluyben2 15y ago
  In the Netherlands you have to, before you are even allowed to shoot at someone, point the gun in the air, call out "Halt or i'll shoot!" and shoot in the air which you have to repeat 3 times. We had some hilarious TV about that.
  - 38leinad 15y ago
    I think it is the same for german police. I.e. you at least have to shot in the air once and call out "stop or i will shoot you!". Obviously, this is not necessary if the life of the officer or someone else is at risk.
    - tluyben2 15y ago
      Obviously; if something is really threatening for yourself or others then of course. But this is not very common as far as I can see. Fleeing the scene is often not a threatening / deadly force situation.
    - ajuc 15y ago
      In Poland too. A few years ago police man had to shout "Stop or I'll shoot.", then shoot 3 times in the air, then policeman could shoot in the legs, and only then shoot to kill. People made fun of this, because when criminal has a gun, he won't be shooting in the air 3 times, nor targeting policeman legs, so law was changed to be less strict about cops shooting. But we still have strict regulations about "allowed defence". For example courts judged a few times, that man that shot burglar with legal gun he had in his house was guilty of "overstepping allowed defence", because burglar only had knife. It's ridiculus IMHO. Still - I've never heard or seen a real gun or knife fight in my life, and neither had anybody I know (or at least they had not told me about that). I think it's general tendency, that gun crimes and homicides in general are much less frequent in Europe.
  - sthlm 15y ago
    Isn't shooting in the air potentially dangerous, since the bullet (assuming straight up in an empty space) will return to the ground with the same velocity it was fired at?
    - rpledge 15y ago
      No, terminal velocity will limit the fall speed to be much less http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1199/can-a-bullet-fired-into-the-air-kill-someone-when-it-comes-down http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1199/can-a-bullet-f...
- fforw 15y ago
  Germany is so densely populated that it might also just be a lot harder for criminals to find a good hiding place without being noticed.
DominikR 15y ago
Police officers in Germany in most cases when someone points a gun at them wont even draw their gun, but try to talk to the person, or take cover and call in extra support.
TDL 15y ago
Well said. It seems as though an intellectual shift has occurred in law enforcement training where de-escalation is no longer a priority and police officers are now more prone to escalate. Part of this might be due to the introduction of less-than-lethal and (supposedly) non-lethal weapons.
patrickk 15y ago
Well said, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Here in Ireland (republic of) I've heard, anecdotally, that the police will quite frequently give chase to joyriders and people speeding, but will very quickly give up the chase if they don't think it'll be reined in quickly. So police in Europe generally may be willing to let people go to de-escalate a situation and save lives, of both suspects and innocent bystanders.

brazzy 15y ago

I think you're right. It's a common trope in German crime shows on TV to see the police chase a dangerous criminal on foot with their gun drawn and then watch in frustration as they get away - but not shoot at them. > Sometimes, when the offense is minor its OK to let the bad guy get away. Especially since, with a bit of methodical work, you usually have a good chance of catching them later.

noonespecial 15y ago
Indeed. If only cars had some sort of unique identifier attached to them somewhere easily visible so you could simply discover after the fact who owned them...
tluyben2 15y ago
In the Netherlands you have to, before you are even allowed to shoot at someone, point the gun in the air, call out "Halt or i'll shoot!" and shoot in the air which you have to repeat 3 times. We had some hilarious TV about that.
- 38leinad 15y ago
  I think it is the same for german police. I.e. you at least have to shot in the air once and call out "stop or i will shoot you!". Obviously, this is not necessary if the life of the officer or someone else is at risk.
  - tluyben2 15y ago
    Obviously; if something is really threatening for yourself or others then of course. But this is not very common as far as I can see. Fleeing the scene is often not a threatening / deadly force situation.
  - ajuc 15y ago
    In Poland too. A few years ago police man had to shout "Stop or I'll shoot.", then shoot 3 times in the air, then policeman could shoot in the legs, and only then shoot to kill. People made fun of this, because when criminal has a gun, he won't be shooting in the air 3 times, nor targeting policeman legs, so law was changed to be less strict about cops shooting. But we still have strict regulations about "allowed defence". For example courts judged a few times, that man that shot burglar with legal gun he had in his house was guilty of "overstepping allowed defence", because burglar only had knife. It's ridiculus IMHO. Still - I've never heard or seen a real gun or knife fight in my life, and neither had anybody I know (or at least they had not told me about that). I think it's general tendency, that gun crimes and homicides in general are much less frequent in Europe.
- sthlm 15y ago
  Isn't shooting in the air potentially dangerous, since the bullet (assuming straight up in an empty space) will return to the ground with the same velocity it was fired at?
  - rpledge 15y ago
    No, terminal velocity will limit the fall speed to be much less http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1199/can-a-bullet-fired-into-the-air-kill-someone-when-it-comes-down http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1199/can-a-bullet-f...
fforw 15y ago
Germany is so densely populated that it might also just be a lot harder for criminals to find a good hiding place without being noticed.

DominikR 15y ago

Police officers in Germany in most cases when someone points a gun at them wont even draw their gun, but try to talk to the person, or take cover and call in extra support.

TDL 15y ago

Well said. It seems as though an intellectual shift has occurred in law enforcement training where de-escalation is no longer a priority and police officers are now more prone to escalate. Part of this might be due to the introduction of less-than-lethal and (supposedly) non-lethal weapons.

patrickk 15y ago

Well said, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Here in Ireland (republic of) I've heard, anecdotally, that the police will quite frequently give chase to joyriders and people speeding, but will very quickly give up the chase if they don't think it'll be reined in quickly. So police in Europe generally may be willing to let people go to de-escalate a situation and save lives, of both suspects and innocent bystanders.