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How can you claim your knowledge of the field is actually deep, if you’ve never even done anything with it? Knowledge without application is nothing, imo. True

How can you claim your knowledge of the field is actually deep, if you’ve never even done anything with it? Knowledge without application is nothing, imo. True “depth” comes from the know-how acquired in digging through all the minutia nobody else though to document, on your way to producing a new creation nobody else thought to build.

DavidPiper 3y ago
While I think there's some truth to yours and some of the sibling comments here, I think a lot of the discourse around documentation is actually just motivated reasoning. The trope that software projects are poorly documented is so pervasive as to be saying nothing at this point. Despite extremely useful and celebrated documentation projects (MDN and Python off the top of my head) that dramatically accelerate other peoples' learning and productivity. But when the topic is raised, the response is always "But we don't have time for documentation". And when that time is given it becomes "It will be useless or out of date soon anyway, just go read the code" (As if there is nothing between non-practical high-level docs and per-line code comments.) And when forced it becomes "Fine, but it won't be any good" or "Other people won't read/benefit from it anyway". And when it's done, often as little effort as possible is put into it. All of which smell to me like cover stories for: "I just don't want to do it."
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ijustlovemath 3y ago
  In the case of Python, I do think the approachability of the documentation slipped after they migrated to the 3.x site, and I think this is somewhat reflected in the search engine rankings.
bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
> Knowledge without application is nothing, imo. Supremely narrow minded. Knowledge has many facets.
- basil-rash 3y ago
  Claims without support are nothing too. In other words: example?
  - bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
    Ok here's an example. Henry Heimlich used "the heimlich maneuver" for the first time when he was 96 (in 2016), 40 years after inventing it, in the "senior home" where he was staying. But according to you, having invented was nothing in the first 40 years, because he didn't actually use it, never mind that it was used by others and taught as a life saving technique. You're just beathtakingly ignorant of how progress actually happens. It's like your understanding of the world comes exclusively from thinking about the world in abstract hypotheticals, rather than interacting with it, which is ironic coming from someone stating that only action matters.
    - basil-rash 3y ago
      You’re so caught up in insulting me, you never stopped to think of I’d consider inventing a novel medical technique an “application” of knowledge. I would. If all he did was read books about things other people did, he certainly would not have invented that. Your following attempt at armchair psychology is humorous, but not much beyond that I’m afraid. Don’t quit your dayjob.
      - bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
        My dayjob is as psychologist. No joke. And my specialty is spotting morons on social media.
        basil-rash 3y ago
        Well I certainly hope your patients can find the help they need. But let’s drop the hominems and get to the point: Do you have a real counter example? Someone that through reading the material of others alone, with no practical/“hands on” experience, was able to develop what you consider “deep” knowledge? Edit: A day ago you were arguing talent can’t come without training. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39656444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39656444 In fact much of your comment history is dedicated to claiming knowledge requires product. How bizzare.

DavidPiper 3y ago

While I think there's some truth to yours and some of the sibling comments here, I think a lot of the discourse around documentation is actually just motivated reasoning. The trope that software projects are poorly documented is so pervasive as to be saying nothing at this point. Despite extremely useful and celebrated documentation projects (MDN and Python off the top of my head) that dramatically accelerate other peoples' learning and productivity. But when the topic is raised, the response is always "But we don't have time for documentation". And when that time is given it becomes "It will be useless or out of date soon anyway, just go read the code" (As if there is nothing between non-practical high-level docs and per-line code comments.) And when forced it becomes "Fine, but it won't be any good" or "Other people won't read/benefit from it anyway". And when it's done, often as little effort as possible is put into it. All of which smell to me like cover stories for: "I just don't want to do it."

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ijustlovemath 3y ago
In the case of Python, I do think the approachability of the documentation slipped after they migrated to the 3.x site, and I think this is somewhat reflected in the search engine rankings.

bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago

> Knowledge without application is nothing, imo. Supremely narrow minded. Knowledge has many facets.

basil-rash 3y ago
Claims without support are nothing too. In other words: example?
- bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
  Ok here's an example. Henry Heimlich used "the heimlich maneuver" for the first time when he was 96 (in 2016), 40 years after inventing it, in the "senior home" where he was staying. But according to you, having invented was nothing in the first 40 years, because he didn't actually use it, never mind that it was used by others and taught as a life saving technique. You're just beathtakingly ignorant of how progress actually happens. It's like your understanding of the world comes exclusively from thinking about the world in abstract hypotheticals, rather than interacting with it, which is ironic coming from someone stating that only action matters.
  - basil-rash 3y ago
    You’re so caught up in insulting me, you never stopped to think of I’d consider inventing a novel medical technique an “application” of knowledge. I would. If all he did was read books about things other people did, he certainly would not have invented that. Your following attempt at armchair psychology is humorous, but not much beyond that I’m afraid. Don’t quit your dayjob.
    - bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
      My dayjob is as psychologist. No joke. And my specialty is spotting morons on social media.
      - basil-rash 3y ago
        Well I certainly hope your patients can find the help they need. But let’s drop the hominems and get to the point: Do you have a real counter example? Someone that through reading the material of others alone, with no practical/“hands on” experience, was able to develop what you consider “deep” knowledge? Edit: A day ago you were arguing talent can’t come without training. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39656444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39656444 In fact much of your comment history is dedicated to claiming knowledge requires product. How bizzare.