5 ms·

I know probably 95% of HN will see it as a downside but one of my favorite things about DBeaver is that because it is implemented on Eclipse you can install nea

by zmmmmm 3y ago

I know probably 95% of HN will see it as a downside but one of my favorite things about DBeaver is that because it is implemented on Eclipse you can install nearly any Eclipse plugin and they work. So I installed Vrapper to edit in Vi-mode, some git tools I like, PlantUML, etc. Really makes it a step above other tools in terms of the power and flexibility you can have with it. Apart from that, you can install it inside regular Eclipse as a plugin, so then you can have your database window and your ER diagram next to your code. Again, something that really sets it apart from dedicated tools.

wanderingmind 3y ago
Would love to learn how you installed these plugins and tested them. Have you written about this somewhere or can you point to some resources that can help people like me, who use dbeaver but can't customize them well.
- zmmmmm 3y ago
  It's straighforward - it doesn't have the Eclipse Marketplace installed so you have to use direct installation, which just means you have to find the plugin site yourself, which is usually on the web site or github page for the plugin. So you go to Help => Install New Software and then put eg: the Vrapper update site in: http://vrapper.sourceforge.net/update-site/stable And just go from there.
anotherevan 3y ago
I've used Vrapper with Eclipse for years, and I've used Dbeaver for years - yet it has never entered my mind before that I could use Vrapper with Dbeaver! Thanks!
fuzztester 3y ago
Why start your comment by saying "I know probably 95% of HN will see it as a downside but"? And this is irrespective of whether that 95% is right or not. Google "father son and donkey story". And re: that 95%: See normal distribution aka bell curve. And echo chamber and hive mind. All of the above imply the same main point, just in different ways.
- hun3 3y ago
  Sort of like defence against possible downvoters. If OP went along the "father, son, and donkey story," then the OP won't have posted it at all.
  - fuzztester 3y ago
    No, they could still have chosen to post it, even if they went along with that story. My point was that there is no need to prepare a defence against downvoters, that too, up front. Not needed at all. Why is their opinion important to the OP? They can have their opinions, he can have his opinion of the same matter. What's the problem? The problem is only if one thinks that HN karma is important. It's totally unimportant.
    - hun3 3y ago
      Karma is unimportant, but downvotes fade away the comment. There is little point in making a comment that will disappear anyway, since no one will see it.
      - fuzztester 3y ago
        >Karma is unimportant, but downvotes fade away the comment. So what? IMO, HN comments are also unimportant. In fact, HN is also unimportant. I said that here on HN recently. Jeez. Does anyone think HN is important in the real world? In the HN world, HN may be important (and even then, only to some), but then it is an echo chamber. >There is little point in making a comment that will disappear anyway, since no one will see it. Maybe. Maybe not. Do you rate the importance or value of your comments by the number of people who see them? >There is little point in making a comment that will disappear anyway, since no one will see it. So what? So comment anyway, without bothering about it disappearing, just to express yourself, or refrain from commenting if the disappearing of your comment is so important to you.
        hun3 3y ago
        That makes sense. Why are you here, though?
hoistbypetard 3y ago
> one of my favorite things about DBeaver is that because it is implemented on Eclipse you can install nearly any Eclipse plugin and they work I like DataGrip for a very similar reason, relative to IDEA plugins.
elric 3y ago
I love the Eclipse IDE. It's a shame the Eclipse Foundation doesn't treat it better. Last time I tried to contribute to it, I ended up giving up. They wanted me to sign paperwork simply to report a bug. There was no documentation about how to build the IDE, which is scattered across dozens of repositories. Maybe that has improved, but I doubt it. They seem to be putting all their eggs into the Theia basket, which is an IDE framework similar to VSCode. Would have been nice to see that energy go towards improving Eclipse instead of reinventing the wheel. Improving the UI's handling of HiDPI would be nice. One can but dream.
- giamma 3y ago
  Hi, I am an Eclipse Foundation committer, but I am not committing to the IDE itself. You don't have to sign the CLA (contributor license agreement) if you want to report a bug, but you have if you want to contribute code, even a small patch for a bug you found. That's a legal requirement to protect the Foundation from contributions that may copy/paste proprietary code and to ensure that you will not in the future change your mind and make claims for your contributions. It's not peculiar to Eclipse Foundation, many open source vendors require contributors to sign a CLA [1] My understanding is that Theia is currently more of a platform than a complete IDE. It is meant to be usable for building cloud-based IDEs, and you can test a distribution on your workstation, but being it a client/server architecture, you currently have to run a docker container locally to test Theia (or at least this was the case in Q3 2023). They are now focusing on the user interface and plug-in architecture of Theia (which is already capable of running VSCode extension). IMHO, for Theia to become really meaningful the server-side part needs to be improved: currently Theia reuses Eclipse JDT and other plug-ins on the back-end, which is fine for a desktop app, but less convenient for a client/server IDE as you will need a separate server-side container running the Eclipse plug-ins for every active user running the Web-based Theia GUI. With respect to Eclipse itself, it has dramatically improved over the last few years, since the Foundation started making a release every 3 months. You may like the UI or not, but on my workstation it's now much faster and lighter than it used to be, and it's also faster and lighter than IntelliJ. To me the main issue with Eclipse is that it relies on P2 for plug-in distribution, which makes installing Eclipse add-ons a painful process. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement
fuzztester 3y ago
Potentially good info to know for someone using Eclipse.

by zmmmmm 3y ago

wanderingmind 3y ago

Would love to learn how you installed these plugins and tested them. Have you written about this somewhere or can you point to some resources that can help people like me, who use dbeaver but can't customize them well.

zmmmmm 3y ago
It's straighforward - it doesn't have the Eclipse Marketplace installed so you have to use direct installation, which just means you have to find the plugin site yourself, which is usually on the web site or github page for the plugin. So you go to Help => Install New Software and then put eg: the Vrapper update site in: http://vrapper.sourceforge.net/update-site/stable And just go from there.

anotherevan 3y ago

I've used Vrapper with Eclipse for years, and I've used Dbeaver for years - yet it has never entered my mind before that I could use Vrapper with Dbeaver! Thanks!

fuzztester 3y ago

Why start your comment by saying "I know probably 95% of HN will see it as a downside but"? And this is irrespective of whether that 95% is right or not. Google "father son and donkey story". And re: that 95%: See normal distribution aka bell curve. And echo chamber and hive mind. All of the above imply the same main point, just in different ways.

hun3 3y ago
Sort of like defence against possible downvoters. If OP went along the "father, son, and donkey story," then the OP won't have posted it at all.
- fuzztester 3y ago
  No, they could still have chosen to post it, even if they went along with that story. My point was that there is no need to prepare a defence against downvoters, that too, up front. Not needed at all. Why is their opinion important to the OP? They can have their opinions, he can have his opinion of the same matter. What's the problem? The problem is only if one thinks that HN karma is important. It's totally unimportant.
  - hun3 3y ago
    Karma is unimportant, but downvotes fade away the comment. There is little point in making a comment that will disappear anyway, since no one will see it.
    - fuzztester 3y ago
      >Karma is unimportant, but downvotes fade away the comment. So what? IMO, HN comments are also unimportant. In fact, HN is also unimportant. I said that here on HN recently. Jeez. Does anyone think HN is important in the real world? In the HN world, HN may be important (and even then, only to some), but then it is an echo chamber. >There is little point in making a comment that will disappear anyway, since no one will see it. Maybe. Maybe not. Do you rate the importance or value of your comments by the number of people who see them? >There is little point in making a comment that will disappear anyway, since no one will see it. So what? So comment anyway, without bothering about it disappearing, just to express yourself, or refrain from commenting if the disappearing of your comment is so important to you.
      - hun3 3y ago
        That makes sense. Why are you here, though?

hoistbypetard 3y ago

> one of my favorite things about DBeaver is that because it is implemented on Eclipse you can install nearly any Eclipse plugin and they work I like DataGrip for a very similar reason, relative to IDEA plugins.

elric 3y ago

I love the Eclipse IDE. It's a shame the Eclipse Foundation doesn't treat it better. Last time I tried to contribute to it, I ended up giving up. They wanted me to sign paperwork simply to report a bug. There was no documentation about how to build the IDE, which is scattered across dozens of repositories. Maybe that has improved, but I doubt it. They seem to be putting all their eggs into the Theia basket, which is an IDE framework similar to VSCode. Would have been nice to see that energy go towards improving Eclipse instead of reinventing the wheel. Improving the UI's handling of HiDPI would be nice. One can but dream.

giamma 3y ago
Hi, I am an Eclipse Foundation committer, but I am not committing to the IDE itself. You don't have to sign the CLA (contributor license agreement) if you want to report a bug, but you have if you want to contribute code, even a small patch for a bug you found. That's a legal requirement to protect the Foundation from contributions that may copy/paste proprietary code and to ensure that you will not in the future change your mind and make claims for your contributions. It's not peculiar to Eclipse Foundation, many open source vendors require contributors to sign a CLA [1] My understanding is that Theia is currently more of a platform than a complete IDE. It is meant to be usable for building cloud-based IDEs, and you can test a distribution on your workstation, but being it a client/server architecture, you currently have to run a docker container locally to test Theia (or at least this was the case in Q3 2023). They are now focusing on the user interface and plug-in architecture of Theia (which is already capable of running VSCode extension). IMHO, for Theia to become really meaningful the server-side part needs to be improved: currently Theia reuses Eclipse JDT and other plug-ins on the back-end, which is fine for a desktop app, but less convenient for a client/server IDE as you will need a separate server-side container running the Eclipse plug-ins for every active user running the Web-based Theia GUI. With respect to Eclipse itself, it has dramatically improved over the last few years, since the Foundation started making a release every 3 months. You may like the UI or not, but on my workstation it's now much faster and lighter than it used to be, and it's also faster and lighter than IntelliJ. To me the main issue with Eclipse is that it relies on P2 for plug-in distribution, which makes installing Eclipse add-ons a painful process. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contributor_License_Agreement

fuzztester 3y ago

Potentially good info to know for someone using Eclipse.