4 ms·

Any evidence outsourcing is the issue?

mnau 3y ago
Whole 787 program that relied on subcontractors. Wiki: > development budget estimated at US$7 billion as Boeing management claimed that they would "require subcontractors to foot the majority of costs" > The accumulated losses for the 787 totaled almost $27 billion (~$32.8 billion in 2022) by May 2015.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  Did outsourcing increase recently?
chmod775 3y ago
Everyone including Boeing officially and internally since admitted it was a dumb idea, however it's a lot to recap in a HN comment. Maybe someone else will feel like it. The short version is that it's hard making things fit together and meet your standards when you're dealing with dozens of different suppliers and suppliers of suppliers who aren't necessarily aligned with your goals. The full story is a cautionary tale about letting business school types displace people who know how to build planes. I recommend seeking out one of the many retellings of Boeings struggles since the McDonnell Douglas merger. Instead of a retelling, I'll point you to the latest chapter: Boeing trying to re-acquire ownership of Spirit AeroSystems. It's a substantial indictment of past policy to do a full reversal in the name of "strengthening safety". https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/business/boeing-spirit-aerosystems.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/business/boeing-spirit-ae...
stevenwoo 3y ago
It’s aimed at entertainment but the latest Last Week Tonight covered this and is on YouTube. Hope this links works from my phone https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oCilY4szc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oCilY4szc
- Etherlord87 3y ago
  I wonder: is there a version of the show available without the audience laughter in the background?
dboreham 3y ago
Yes. The door that fell off was part of a subcontracted fuselage assembly. Boeing inspectors found, on delivery, that it was not correctly installed. Apparently they very frequently found defects like this in delivered 737 fuselages. Rather than do something sensible such as shut down the fuselage plant until it could make defect-free assemblies, instead Boeing adopted a continuous re-work and re-inspect flow on the delivery side of the contracting relationship, with of course the cost borne by the subcontractor. This meant that Boeing staff essentially did the equivalent of filing bugs in the subcontractor's repo, but accepted the subcontractor's CI being green as proof the bug was fixed. Which in this case it was not.

mnau 3y ago

Whole 787 program that relied on subcontractors. Wiki: > development budget estimated at US$7 billion as Boeing management claimed that they would "require subcontractors to foot the majority of costs" > The accumulated losses for the 787 totaled almost $27 billion (~$32.8 billion in 2022) by May 2015.

cscurmudgeon 3y ago
Did outsourcing increase recently?

chmod775 3y ago

Everyone including Boeing officially and internally since admitted it was a dumb idea, however it's a lot to recap in a HN comment. Maybe someone else will feel like it. The short version is that it's hard making things fit together and meet your standards when you're dealing with dozens of different suppliers and suppliers of suppliers who aren't necessarily aligned with your goals. The full story is a cautionary tale about letting business school types displace people who know how to build planes. I recommend seeking out one of the many retellings of Boeings struggles since the McDonnell Douglas merger. Instead of a retelling, I'll point you to the latest chapter: Boeing trying to re-acquire ownership of Spirit AeroSystems. It's a substantial indictment of past policy to do a full reversal in the name of "strengthening safety". https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/business/boeing-spirit-aerosystems.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/business/boeing-spirit-ae...

stevenwoo 3y ago

It’s aimed at entertainment but the latest Last Week Tonight covered this and is on YouTube. Hope this links works from my phone https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oCilY4szc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oCilY4szc

Etherlord87 3y ago
I wonder: is there a version of the show available without the audience laughter in the background?

dboreham 3y ago

Yes. The door that fell off was part of a subcontracted fuselage assembly. Boeing inspectors found, on delivery, that it was not correctly installed. Apparently they very frequently found defects like this in delivered 737 fuselages. Rather than do something sensible such as shut down the fuselage plant until it could make defect-free assemblies, instead Boeing adopted a continuous re-work and re-inspect flow on the delivery side of the contracting relationship, with of course the cost borne by the subcontractor. This meant that Boeing staff essentially did the equivalent of filing bugs in the subcontractor's repo, but accepted the subcontractor's CI being green as proof the bug was fixed. Which in this case it was not.