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“Apple’s quantity and resolution rate of security bugs undermine its privacy marketing” and “Apple’s privacy marketing is a lie” are two very different claims,

“Apple’s quantity and resolution rate of security bugs undermine its privacy marketing” and “Apple’s privacy marketing is a lie” are two very different claims, and it seems like you meant to make the first. Even that claim though is unsupported since Safari users are definitely harder to track across the web in practice than Chrome users. > Shall I cite my list of CVE? Or perhaps it would be more interesting to cite my list of unfixed 0days. The list of vulnerabilities is not very informative for the same reason a trackers blocked statistic is not. It doesn’t give any baseline for comparison and may just be a reflection of how important and interesting to security researchers the target is.

lapcat 3y ago
I think you missed the point of my comment. When I said my list of CVE and my list of unfixed 0days, I meant that literally: CVE attributed by Apple to me, and unfixed 0days that I personally discovered. I wasn't making a "wild accusation".
- shuckles 3y ago
  No I understood exactly what you meant. The number of reports is not helpful data without a lot of other context, but you offered it as if it would be convincing or definitive. How many CVEs and 0-days have you filed against Audacity? Is it because that software is security bug free?
  - lapcat 3y ago
    > No I understood exactly what you meant. That's a rather bold claim, unless you're a mind-reader. > The number of reports is not helpful data without a lot of other context, but you offered it as if it would be convincing or definitive. I didn't give a number. I only said I have a list. It seems that you're still missing my point, which was simply that my knowledge of and experience with these specific technologies means that my original comment was not a "wild accusation". That's it, that's the whole point. > How many CVEs and 0-days have you filed against Audacity? I don't use Audacity, and I have no idea how it's relevant here.
    - shuckles 3y ago
      > That's a rather bold claim, unless you're a mind-reader. It seems like you have me confused with someone else in the thread who used the phrase "wild accusation" and are responding rudely. I think your original comment was needlessly exaggerated and inflammatory and defending it, instead of clarifying it, is a bad look. Clearly you have an axe to grind with Apple, and my advice to you is you should put a little more effort into hiding it if you want others to take you seriously.
      - lapcat 3y ago
        > It seems like you have me confused with someone else in the thread who used the phrase "wild accusation" No, I'm not confused. But that comment was the context for my mentioning CVE and 0days, which you decided to discuss yourself. simondotau: "That's an wild accusation to make without citations." me: "Shall I cite my list of CVE? Or perhaps it would be more interesting to cite my list of unfixed 0days." you: "The list of vulnerabilities is not very informative for the same reason a trackers blocked statistic is not." If you don't want to discuss my previous quoted comment, that's fine, but you have in fact mentioned it and continue to mention it. Thus, the context is very relevant. > and are responding rudely. Where exactly was I rude? > I think your original comment was needlessly exaggerated and inflammatory and defending it, instead of clarifying it, is a bad look. I would be happy to clarify it, but the first time you asked for clarification was here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39661492 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39661492 I'll respond to that comment, though it may take some time. > Clearly you have an axe to grind with Apple I've been a Mac user for more than 20 years, a professional Mac developer for more than 15, and I currently sell apps in the Mac App Store and iOS App Store. Do I have critiques of Apple? Yes, of course. However, they are the critiques of an insider who has no intention to leave the ecosystem.
        simondotau 3y ago
        > Where exactly was I rude? You're throwing around your ego and responding with alleged claims of personal expertise when this discussion has nothing to do with that. You're deflecting with puffery; which is irrelevant with respect to your original claim which I questioned. I don't care that you have a list and I don't care how long it is. You accused Apple of engaging in privacy theatre, and that "many" privacy features where mere "marketing". Defend that claim or move on.

lapcat 3y ago

I think you missed the point of my comment. When I said my list of CVE and my list of unfixed 0days, I meant that literally: CVE attributed by Apple to me, and unfixed 0days that I personally discovered. I wasn't making a "wild accusation".

shuckles 3y ago
No I understood exactly what you meant. The number of reports is not helpful data without a lot of other context, but you offered it as if it would be convincing or definitive. How many CVEs and 0-days have you filed against Audacity? Is it because that software is security bug free?
- lapcat 3y ago
  > No I understood exactly what you meant. That's a rather bold claim, unless you're a mind-reader. > The number of reports is not helpful data without a lot of other context, but you offered it as if it would be convincing or definitive. I didn't give a number. I only said I have a list. It seems that you're still missing my point, which was simply that my knowledge of and experience with these specific technologies means that my original comment was not a "wild accusation". That's it, that's the whole point. > How many CVEs and 0-days have you filed against Audacity? I don't use Audacity, and I have no idea how it's relevant here.
  - shuckles 3y ago
    > That's a rather bold claim, unless you're a mind-reader. It seems like you have me confused with someone else in the thread who used the phrase "wild accusation" and are responding rudely. I think your original comment was needlessly exaggerated and inflammatory and defending it, instead of clarifying it, is a bad look. Clearly you have an axe to grind with Apple, and my advice to you is you should put a little more effort into hiding it if you want others to take you seriously.
    - lapcat 3y ago
      > It seems like you have me confused with someone else in the thread who used the phrase "wild accusation" No, I'm not confused. But that comment was the context for my mentioning CVE and 0days, which you decided to discuss yourself. simondotau: "That's an wild accusation to make without citations." me: "Shall I cite my list of CVE? Or perhaps it would be more interesting to cite my list of unfixed 0days." you: "The list of vulnerabilities is not very informative for the same reason a trackers blocked statistic is not." If you don't want to discuss my previous quoted comment, that's fine, but you have in fact mentioned it and continue to mention it. Thus, the context is very relevant. > and are responding rudely. Where exactly was I rude? > I think your original comment was needlessly exaggerated and inflammatory and defending it, instead of clarifying it, is a bad look. I would be happy to clarify it, but the first time you asked for clarification was here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39661492 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39661492 I'll respond to that comment, though it may take some time. > Clearly you have an axe to grind with Apple I've been a Mac user for more than 20 years, a professional Mac developer for more than 15, and I currently sell apps in the Mac App Store and iOS App Store. Do I have critiques of Apple? Yes, of course. However, they are the critiques of an insider who has no intention to leave the ecosystem.
      - simondotau 3y ago
        > Where exactly was I rude? You're throwing around your ego and responding with alleged claims of personal expertise when this discussion has nothing to do with that. You're deflecting with puffery; which is irrelevant with respect to your original claim which I questioned. I don't care that you have a list and I don't care how long it is. You accused Apple of engaging in privacy theatre, and that "many" privacy features where mere "marketing". Defend that claim or move on.