3 ms·

"AWS' availability zone isolation is better than the other cloud providers." Not better than all of them. A geo-redundant rsync.net account exists in two diff

• Helmut10001 3y ago
  Agree. > S3 even operates at a scale where we could detect "bitrot" - random bit flips caused by gamma rays hitting a hard drive platter (roughly one per second across trillions of objects iirc). I would expect any cloud provider to be able to detect bitrot these days.
  • senderista 3y ago
    I think the point the OP was trying to make is that they regularly detected bitrot due to their scale, not that they were merely capable of doing so.
    • Helmut10001 3y ago
      Ah, thank you. This makes more sense. And I think I remember reading about it once. Apologies for the misinterpretation!
    • pclmulqdq 3y ago
      Everyone with significant scale and decent software regularly detects bitrot.
• breckognize 3y ago
  Backing up across two different regions is possible for any provider with two "regions" but requires either doubling your storage footprint or accepting a latency hit because you have to make a roundtrip from Fremont to Denver. The neat thing about AWS' AZ architecture is that it's a sweet spot in the middle. They're far enough apart for good isolation, which provides durability and availability, but close enough that the network round trip time is negligible compared to the disk seek. Re: bit rot, I mean the frequency of events. If you've got a few disks, you may see one flip every couple years. They happen frequently enough in S3 that you can have expectations about the arrival rate and alarm when that deviates from expectations.
  • logifail 3y ago
    > The neat thing about AWS' AZ architecture is that it's a sweet spot in the middle What may be less of a sweet spot is AWS' pricing.
    • emodendroket 3y ago
      Sending the data to /dev/null is the cheapest option if that’s all you care about.
      • logifail 3y ago
        Seems the snark detector just went off :) Back on topic, I'd hope all of us would expect value for money for any and all services we recommend or purchase. Search for "site:news.ycombinator.com Away From AWS" to find dozens of discussions on how to save money by leaving AWS. EDIT: just one article of the many I've read recently: "What I’ve always found surprising about egress is just how expensive it is. On AWS, downloading a file from S3 to your computer once costs 4 times more than storing it for an entire month" https://robaboukhalil.medium.com/youre-paying-too-much-for-egress-b1fe20274a6b https://robaboukhalil.medium.com/youre-paying-too-much-for-e...
        • looknohandsma 3y ago
          And that is egress which works as expected, unlike the AWS S3 denial of wallet attack...: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39625029 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39625029
  • senderista 3y ago
    > the network round trip time is negligible compared to the disk seek Only for spinning rust, right?
    • breckognize 3y ago
      Yes, which is what all the hyperscalers use for object storage. HDD seek time is ~10ms. Inter-az network latency is a few hundred micros.
• allset_ 3y ago
  FWIW, both AWS S3 and GCP GCS also allow you to store data in multi-region. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/userguide/MultiRegionAccessPoints.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/userguide/MultiR... https://cloud.google.com/storage/docs/locations#considerations https://cloud.google.com/storage/docs/locations#consideratio...
  • andrewguenther 3y ago
    Yes, but S3 has single region redundancy that is better than GCP. Your data in two AZs in one region is in two physically separate buildings. So multi-region is less important to durability.
• mannyv 3y ago
  How does the latest ZFS bug impact your bitrot statement? I mean, technically it’s not bitrot if zeros were accidentally written out instead of data.
  • woodada 3y ago
    Probably none because they didn't update to the exact version that had the bug
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]